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The question, initially posted May 23, 2005, was:
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After 51,906,997 views, 7378 replies over 185 pages, this thread in General Truck Talk is a happening! And it's not just weekends anymore.


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Re: Generator to alternator conversion
LeeD #1437640 Mon Jan 17 2022 06:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,450
F
'Bolter
Lee D The first version of delcotron with internal regulator will work .Going to a one wire simplifies it a lot more,then you just make a junction at the old regulator sight,belt it up and it shows charge on your dash. See instructions on stovebolt how to do it.

Re: Generator to alternator conversion
bartamos #1437646 Mon Jan 17 2022 07:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,450
F
'Bolter
bartamos Without the annunciator bulb wont you have trouble turning your engine off ??

Re: Generator to alternator conversion
LeeD #1437669 Mon Jan 17 2022 10:12 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,756
B
Sir Searchalot
1. Delcotron was an externally regulated alternator. It was used with a separate voltage regulator. Was called a Delcotron Generator. The name in my opinion refers to a externally regulated "alternator". It's claim to fame was a diode rectifier and rotor/stator/slip ring design.

2. The "modern" 10SI Delco is an internally regulated alternator. It can be wired with or without an indicator light.
There are folks who's motor "ran on" and they fixed it with a light or resistor or a diode. There are many folks who have none of those and have no trouble. Mad Electric said you DO NOT need a light or etc.
Each "run on" situation has to be examined for how and where the "switched" exciter power is wired. What terminal on the ignition switch and if ammeter or volt meter.
I have not studied why some with no light, resistor or diode have a problem and some don't. You would have to do some testing while it's "running on".
If a person has an ignition switch with a "ACC" terminal I believe that is isolated from IGN ON. The ACC terminal would be used for alternator pin 1.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
I recommend invoking MIL-T-FP41c when machining and fabricating
I used to think beer was bad for me, so I gave up thinking.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense.
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.
Honk if you're Amish


Re: Generator to alternator conversion
LeeD #1437855 Wed Jan 19 2022 06:41 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,756
B
Sir Searchalot
The theory that adding a bulb will stop the over-run but a straight wire will not, makes no sense. We know that the bulb is used to indicate charge. The bulb must be in a two wire socket. One side is to the alternator blade terminal 1 and the other is to the ignition. (to a terminal that is hot when key is on).

When key goes to on, 12V goes from the switch thru the bulb and finds ground inside the alternator. The light lights. When the motor starts, and alternator is charging properly, 12V is sent thru the exciter wire (blade terminal 1) to the bulbs other end. Since there is no potential/no difference/no flow/no ground, the bulb goes out.
So we got that.

Now people who are supposed to be experts say use a bulb if you want an indicator. Use a straight wire if you don't. The blogosphere says some folks have run-on with a straight wire, but a bulb stops that because it has "resistance". So what?

If the motor stays running it means the coil is getting voltage. The only place to get voltage with key off (unless some kind of wire screw up) is from the spinning alternator. Voltage goes up the wire, which has a little resistance, to the ignition switch terminal which is "off".... But that terminal is in the same circuit as the coil wire so voltage goes thru ignition switch resistance, seeking ground. Thru the coil windings resistance, to the distributor, thru the points resistance to ground. SUPPOSEDLY. Some trucks have a ballast resistor. It goes thru that too. All that resistance and it still runs? But a little 1 amp light bulb that may or may not draw 1 amp at that point, but relies on the filament resistance, and that's enough extra to stop the motor?

I believe various issue cause some to have run-on, some not
1. Miswire
2. Non isolated ignition switch terminals or a bad switch
3. No ballast 6V systems
4. HEI
5. One wire alternator
6. long wire runs
7. Short wire runs

The fact is many folks run a straight wire. no problem. MAD Electrics and others say no bulb needed except for indicator. Go figure. No really...go figure/give your opinion and let the info flow.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
I recommend invoking MIL-T-FP41c when machining and fabricating
I used to think beer was bad for me, so I gave up thinking.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense.
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.
Honk if you're Amish


Re: Generator to alternator conversion
LeeD #1437896 Wed Jan 19 2022 05:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,518
"Hey! I sound like Darth Vader!!
Bartamos, side note. Does it matter if the indicator bulb is incandescent or LED?

Re: Generator to alternator conversion
LeeD #1437912 Wed Jan 19 2022 06:39 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,756
B
Sir Searchalot
No LED's for that. They have polarity (directional installation) and may not operate as a warning indicator.
As far as the "resistance" use we are talking, I don't think they have much.

May be possible with a few extra parts designed into the "circuit". I'm not up on that.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
I recommend invoking MIL-T-FP41c when machining and fabricating
I used to think beer was bad for me, so I gave up thinking.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense.
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.
Honk if you're Amish


Re: Generator to alternator conversion
LeeD #1437938 Wed Jan 19 2022 08:24 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,785
W
'Bolter
Re: LED Polarity.

I recently installed 12v LED railing lights the other day and saw no mention of polarity in the instructions. The 2 wires from the light were both black. I think they had a little analyzing and switching circuit so they would work either way. It would be nice if LEDs in our trucks worked that way.


1948 3/4-Ton 5-Window Flatbed Chevrolet [sandeace.com]

29 Years of Daily Driving. With a '61 261, 848 head, Rochester Monojet carb, SM420 4-speed, 4.10 rear, dual reservoir MC, Bendix up front, 235/85R16 tires, 12-volt w/alternator, electric wipers and a modern radio in the glove box.
Re: Generator to alternator conversion
LeeD #1437939 Wed Jan 19 2022 08:58 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,756
B
Sir Searchalot
The "D" in LED is DIODE. A one directional device.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
I recommend invoking MIL-T-FP41c when machining and fabricating
I used to think beer was bad for me, so I gave up thinking.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense.
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.
Honk if you're Amish


Re: Generator to alternator conversion
bartamos #1437945 Wed Jan 19 2022 10:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,518
"Hey! I sound like Darth Vader!!
Originally Posted by bartamos
No LED's for that. They have polarity (directional installation) and may not operate as a warning indicator.
As far as the "resistance" use we are talking, I don't think they have much.

May be possible with a few extra parts designed into the "circuit". I'm not up on that.

Thanks!

Re: Generator to alternator conversion
bartamos #1438357 Sun Jan 23 2022 01:54 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 215
5
'Bolter
Originally Posted by bartamos
The fact is many folks run a straight wire. no problem. MAD Electrics and others say no bulb need except for indicator. Go figure. No really...go figure/give your opinion and let the info flow.


I don't do 'opinions' but was curious about this so I did some experimenting with my truck. It is a custom harness and the exciter wire is connected to the ACC side of the fuse panel so it is separate from the ignition hot side. The wire connects to an indicator lamp and the lamp to the alternator. The alternator is a run of the mill 10SI GM alternator, an early one that is not metric. The ammeter always indicates charge immediately when the engine fires.

First I took the bulb out. With an open circuit to the exciter terminal the alternator did not immediately charge. When I increased the rpm to about 3000 it began to charge and continued to operate as normal once it started to charge.

Then I bypassed the bulb with a shunt which would be the same as a straight wire from the ACC side of the switch to the alternator. The alternator began to charge immediately when the engine fired up. When I turned off the ignition the engine died just like normal. I repeated this exercise several times and the engine never ran on after the ignition was turned off, no different than with the indicator lamp in the circuit.

So in my case, having an indicator lamp made no difference. I am keeping the indicator lamp in the circuit, I don't want to risk the run on situation which would likely happen at the most inopportune time.

Your mileage may vary

Mark

Last edited by 59 fleet; Sun Jan 23 2022 02:13 AM.
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