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Re: 53 Two Ton Dual Circuit Brakes
Bolt-on #1424057 Wed Sep 15 2021 01:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 7
B
Bolt-on Offline OP
'Bolter
I noticed the 250 damper has the pulley on the wrong side of the rubber. And I'm a nitpicker about belt alignment.

I also remembered wrong about the 03 Isuzu, it had some kind of air brakes.

I bought a Hydromax booster and a 1.75 master cylinder on ebay. Total cost $250. The fun starts with the fittings and lines. The hydromax with electric backup is from a 2002 Chevy C6500 so maybe it's not just an old Ford thing.

I haven't fallen in love with the old stovebolt enough to do a serpentine setup, but maybe with time!

Re: 53 Two Ton Dual Circuit Brakes
Bolt-on #1424059 Wed Sep 15 2021 01:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,005
H
'Bolter
You'd better spend some time in the gym doing squats- - - - -you'll need all the help you can get with both feet on the brake pedal with that huge master cylinder bore. You'll have a VERY short pedal stroke, though!
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: 53 Two Ton Dual Circuit Brakes
Bolt-on #1424077 Wed Sep 15 2021 03:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,739
C
'Bolter
I would venture to say that most of these guys that think they have to improve on hydrovac brakes have never driven a truck with a properly functioning hydrovac system. I grew up riding and later driving two ton bobtails delivering gasoline in the Texas Hill Country. From when I first started riding along in the late 1940'S until I bought a semi with air brakes in 1964 all we had was hydrovacs. And they would stop a 2000 gallon load of gasoline just fine. And we went faster than most people realize. We weren't afraid to run our gas GMCs up to 70 mph and we had no trouble stopping them. I wonder were this guy went to buy brake parts. I had an Isuzu NPR for a while. I bought rear drums for less than $100 each 10 years ago. I notice they are up to $130 now.

Re: 53 Two Ton Dual Circuit Brakes
Bolt-on #1424084 Wed Sep 15 2021 05:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,005
H
'Bolter
Dad had a 49 Olds 98 in the early 1950's that was the fastest one in the middle Tennessee area. He used it as a test bed for several hotrodding projects on the then-new overhead valve Olds and Cadillac V8's, some which ended up being incorporated into a different style of "tanker" for some guys from the east Tennessee mountains. He won a hydrovac as a door prize at a garage owners' banquet sponsored by a local parts warehouse and fitted it to the Olds. Just one little problem- - - -it was sized for a 3/4 ton truck! It took a VERY gentle touch on the brake pedal to keep from locking up the wheels at every stop.

"New and different" simply for the sake of change sometimes results in butchered-up rolling deathtraps, even when the intentions are good. Ambulance chasing lawyers love to put those guys in their crosshairs!
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: 53 Two Ton Dual Circuit Brakes
Bolt-on #1424086 Wed Sep 15 2021 11:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 49
S
'Bolter
I just wanted to take a moment and add how well the original brakes perform. I put my 54 4100 back to original and it has the best brakes of any vehicle in my fleet. That includes my modern vehicles. Even with 2 tons in it, it still outperforms all my other vehicles in braking.

Yes I wish it had a dual master, but I have had dual masters completely fail (1981 F100) - since I experienced that I put less credence on having a dual master. Instead I periodically go over the entire braking system - very easy to do since the truck is easy to get under. I check master cylinder level before every outing.

I have only once needed the safety of a dual master in 40+ years and is was because no one kept an eye on the rubber brake lines (1967 camaro back in 1978).

Re: 53 Two Ton Dual Circuit Brakes
Bolt-on #1424122 Wed Sep 15 2021 03:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,005
H
'Bolter
Anyone who has done a serious study of the internal plumbing of a dual outlet master cylinder and gained an understanding of how the thing actually works probably won't be as anxious to bet his/her life on that incredibly complicaled piece of Rube Goldberg engineering working as designed in an emergency. Complex designs add a degree of potential error that I find to be totally unacceptable. People who are willing to draw to an inside straight in a high-stakes poker game might have a different level of confidence in the things.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: 53 Two Ton Dual Circuit Brakes
Bolt-on #1424188 Wed Sep 15 2021 11:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 7
B
Bolt-on Offline OP
'Bolter
I'm glad everyone's brakes are so good. My truck doesn't have brakes that work right now. I'm looking forward to getting them working. Hydrovac parts are hard to find. Single circuit master cylinders allow complete brake failure with a single leak. Dual circuit master cylinders can still fail but they've been working out ok for the last 60 years. A 1.75 master cylinder would take a lot of pedal pressure if it didn't have 2,000 psi of hydraulic assist.

Crenwedge is sure right about the 2003 brake drums. The GMC/Isuzu was a WT5500 cabover with a Duramax 7800 six. I was away from home when the brakes went out so I took it to a shop. I just checked rear drum prices and it looks like I was ripped off big time.

Re: 53 Two Ton Dual Circuit Brakes
Bolt-on #1424223 Thu Sep 16 2021 02:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 8
F
'Bolter
I rebuilt the whole brake system on my 1962 c60. All new wheel cylinders, shoes, hoses, lines and master cylinder. The hydrovac was rebuilt by one of the only rebuilders in my area and it soon failed. The hydrovac may have been good back in its day when they were new but good cores, rebuild kits and rebuilders are hard to find, it was the obvious weak link in my new system.

I ended up going the hydroboost conversation route and wish I didn’t waste time and money fussing with the hydrovac.

I’m planning on doing a full post on it but I want to get more seat time before reporting back on it. After a few months I finally found a company willing to insure the truck and got to drive it for the first time yesterday. The brakes work great so far with plenty of stopping power and a great pedal feel.

My truck has a 327ci. I made up custom brackets and mounted a Saginaw power steering pump.
Hydroboost and master is from a 2005 Suburban 2500.
Clutch master is from a mid 60’s International truck.
I had to make a firewall plate to mount them.
I extended the clutch torsion rod 4.5” because the clutch master is now mounted that much wider away.
The new hydroboost rod was welded to the old adjustable master rod.
I used a high pressure line from the suburban which I cut and spliced (using proper fittings) to get the length and shape needed. Return lines are low pressure since there is no restriction from a steering gear.

Not sure when I will get a full thread on it posted so if you have any questions or want part numbers or specs let me know.

[img]https://imgur.com/a/bLalkbo[/img]

Re: 53 Two Ton Dual Circuit Brakes
Bolt-on #1424301 Fri Sep 17 2021 04:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 7
B
Bolt-on Offline OP
'Bolter
Nice setup!

So did you use a hydraulic clutch linkage? I see dual belts on the alternator. Nice. That 327 has a lot of room in there.

I got a used ebay balancer for the six today but it was wrong. It was a single groove. Looked like a 2 groove in the picture. Sent it back. I'm going to try to modify one from a 250 like Hotrod Lincoln suggested. I can use small spacers on the brackets if I need to align the pulleys. I want to get the truck going as simply as I can for now. I think a v8 may be in the future.

I can't decide if the brake master should go under the floor with the integral reservoir, under with a remote, or on the firewall. I like the way you did it. Firewall is sure accessible for bleeding and checking fluid levels.

I need to get after the wheel cylinders and look at the shoes. I haven't even tried to get them apart yet. The parking brake shoes need to be relined and the linkage gone through too.

This is the truck the day I picked it up.

Attached Files
20210731_140312-1.jpg (210.1 KB, 46 downloads)
Last edited by Bolt-on; Fri Sep 17 2021 04:04 AM.
Re: 53 Two Ton Dual Circuit Brakes
Bolt-on #1424331 Fri Sep 17 2021 01:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 8
F
'Bolter
The clutch was originally hydraulically actuated, I did replace the slave and lines as well on that.


I wasn’t able to find a two groove alternator pulley that was the right size so I machined the new one down and bored out the old one from the generator and welded them together.
[img]https://imgur.com/a/aMHW7R0[/img]

There is the option to mount the hydroboost remotely and still use the original master. As slave cylinder would need to be mounted on the hydroboost to actuate it from the master, similar to how the hydrovac works. But for me that was going to be a lot of extra work. After fussing so much with this system I just wanted something that was going to work and be as reliable as possible.

Nice truck!

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