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Water pump, overheating questions
#1423848 Mon Sep 13 2021 04:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 619
S
showme Offline OP
'Bolter
Finally getting the '51 back on the road after king pin job, and everything was going fine until I took it for a test drive around the neighborhood. Noticed the thermostat temp rising, and was waiting for it to fall when it hit 180*, but it didn't drop. I got back to the house as it was creeping toward 220*, shut it down and let it cool. I have an extra thermostat and a new water pump that I bought years ago due to the pump that came on the truck looks like it's the oldest part on the engine. Anyway, I pulled the thermostat, and it was pretty gummed up looking with rusty looking sediment. (The truck has been nearly undriven since the timing gear stripped a few summers ago. Had it replaced last summer, but didn't want to drive it until I changed out the king pins and put some new tires on it, which I've recently done.) I installed the new thermostat, took it for a 4-5 mile ride to the gas station to fill it up with fresh fuel (after pouring some octane booster in it), keeping an eye on the thermostat. When it hit 180, I was watching for it do open up and drop. It must have opened, because it never got above 180, and to get to the gas station I have to get out on the state highway for about 2 miles. I drove it back home and all was well, so I decided it would be a good time to flush the radiator and engine and put in new antifreeze. After draining it, I flushed it with the hose for about 5 minutes while it ran, then closed the petcock and filled it back up (while running, of course). I poured some cascade dishwashing powder in with it to break up any junk or rust, which i learned about on this forum. I then took it for another ride around the neighborhood and as I went down the hill and it warmed up, I started noticing that the gauge was rising and passing 180 again! I drove back up the hill to the house as it was getting close to the 220 high point. Pulled into the house just as it was starting to whine a little. Shut it down and checked under the hood. There was no water coming from the overflow tube. Nothing was leaking anywhere, including the water pump. I didn't mention, but the radiator is a "new" aluminum Champion that the PO put in before I got it 8 or so years ago.

So, I'm getting ready to go out and first open up and check the new thermostat, drain the radiator and see what's up there(still getting rusty looking water out of it after the first few flushes, hence the cascade in the last refill, before flushing it out again), then probably just go ahead and install the new water pump to be safe.

Has anyone ever installed a new thermo then had it not open after flushing it like that? Also, every water pump that's ever gone bad on me has had the tell tale weep hole leak at the bottom, but this one doesn't seem to be leaking. I will say that I had a good shop do the timing gear change, and I don't know if they pulled the water pump to get that job done, but I don't think so. Anyway, I'm on my way back out to start pulling and checking and replacing, so I wanted to ask you all what your thoughts are on this problem. The way I see it is, maybe the thermostat got clogged with something that broke loose, or maybe the pump was out/going out all along. But this wouldn't make any sense, since I drove it about 6-7 miles to the gas station after the thermo change witout it getting too hot before I flushed it out again. Thanks for any ideas or comments. Lee


"When I rest, I rust"
1951 3100 5 window w/ '56 235



Re: Water pump, overheating questions
showme #1423852 Mon Sep 13 2021 05:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 615
2
'Bolter
Sounds like you ran into a similar problem that I have
You have a small airlock under the thermostat which doesn’t let it warm up as nice
Eventually it will get hot and open
But it’s much nicer for everything if you drill a small bypass hole through the new thermostat before installing
Then all these issues go away
-s

Re: Water pump, overheating questions
showme #1423863 Mon Sep 13 2021 06:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 619
S
showme Offline OP
'Bolter
Ahhh. I wonder why the last one I put in didn't do this? Got em' both from classic parts. But I'll do that. I've got the thermostat pulled out, brought it in and checked it in a pan of water on the stove with the help of my wife's candy making thermometer. It opened up right before 180*. Now I've got the radiator out to pull the old pump and put in the new one. If I'd have gotten back on here earlier, I would have just tried drilling the hole and saved the water pump. But I've already got two bolts out and the radiator, and horn out of the way. I'm not going to put it all back together now, especially since I know the thermostat is good. But thanks for that info. I know I've heard a lot of talk about that bypass hole before. Didn't even think of it till you said it. Now I've got to post again to ask about the fan bolts. They're not left-handed threads, are they? I'm having a **** of a time getting one loose, so I came back in to check with 'the guys' to make sure I don't ruin them by forcing them the wrong way. Be back in a bit to see if anybody knows.


"When I rest, I rust"
1951 3100 5 window w/ '56 235



Re: Water pump, overheating questions
showme #1423866 Mon Sep 13 2021 07:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 615
2
'Bolter
On my stock trucks 50-53 I don’t recall any left hand bolts anywhere on the vehicle
I’ve had fans on and off and those for sure are normal thread on my trucks.
-s

Re: Water pump, overheating questions
showme #1423879 Mon Sep 13 2021 08:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 619
S
showme Offline OP
'Bolter
Alright, then, I posted in general truck about those bolts, and before I came back in, I got the pump bolts out with an open end wrench, then put the pump on my vise and pounded my wrench a few times and it broke loose. It was TIGHT! But not as tight as my heater hose inlet. But it came out too. Is h-e-c-k a cuss word? I had h-e-l-l censored not long ago, and I asked the moderator, what if I talk about heaven and ****? the asterisk police got that too. Funny.


"When I rest, I rust"
1951 3100 5 window w/ '56 235



Re: Water pump, overheating questions
showme #1423885 Mon Sep 13 2021 09:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,345
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
Stovebolt software automatically removes objectionable words. Moderators have nothing to do with that process. Doing as you have done in the above post, ie; putting dashes between letters fools the software but is still objectionable to members. Please do not do it in future posts. Stovebolt.com is considered a family friendly website and we want to keep it that way. Thank you.


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
‘65 Chevy Biscayne 4dr 230 I-6 one owner (I’m #2) “Emily”
‘39 Dodge Businessmans Coupe “Clarence”



"I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop!
USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)

Re: Water pump, overheating questions
showme #1423887 Mon Sep 13 2021 09:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 619
S
showme Offline OP
'Bolter
Ok, now I've gotten the pump back in and the heater hose and generator bracket on and torqued. Ready to put the pulley and fan on before installing the radiator, but I've got a problem. Maybe it's suppose to be this way, but I'm not sure. The pump I bought from Classic Parts years ago, specifically for newer engines put into older 3100's, has a shorter shaft on it, which is fine with me, although it will bring the fan away from the radiator. Problem is that in order to get the fan to not hit the harmonic balancer on the crank shaft (it sticks out around the pulley and comes another 1/2" or so forward of it). I can solve this problem with the steel spacer they sent with the pump, but it ends up leaving the shaft about a sixteenth inch short of even being flush with the fan's center hole, much less making contact by passing through the fan to keep it centered. I understand the 4 bolts will hold it in place, but it seems to me that when something is riding a shaft, the shaft should be through the fan metal for centering. Here are a few pics. The old pump is spinning freely without any bearing issues. I'm wondering if I should just get another gasket and put the old one back on, or chance this short shafted new one. Why does the new one have a short shaft? With a spacer that doesn't allow the shaft to protrude through the fan, it seems like somebody messed up here. Or is this not the pump I need?

Attached Files
Photo849.jpg (135.83 KB, 135 downloads)
Photo852.jpg (109.65 KB, 135 downloads)
Photo851.jpg (82.06 KB, 135 downloads)

"When I rest, I rust"
1951 3100 5 window w/ '56 235



Re: Water pump, overheating questions
Justhorsenround #1423892 Mon Sep 13 2021 10:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 619
S
showme Offline OP
'Bolter
Will do. I'm a family friendly guy. Although I don't believe h-e-c-k is crude or non-family friendly. And I'm a Christian, so **** is a much talked about place in my circles. But I do understand that there are people who abuse it's use, so I'm not opposed to being edited for that. But I'll do my best to go by the rules. Being around Ironworkers daily for 30 years will put some rough edges on ya!


"When I rest, I rust"
1951 3100 5 window w/ '56 235



Re: Water pump, overheating questions
showme #1423901 Mon Sep 13 2021 11:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,638
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Unless somebody has repositioned the radiator to the front of the mounting cradle, a long shaft pump generally puts the fan into the radiator. Any late model water pump can become a "short shaft" by pressing the fan hub back and cutting the shaft to the proper length. If a long shaft pump fits your 51 truck, somebody must have moved the radiator forward. A simpler fix that keeps the fan in the right position vertically is Dave's adapter plate that allows a 216-style pump to be used on the 55-up engines.
Jerry


"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Kris Kristofferson

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!

WAG MORE- - - - - -BARK LESS!
Looking for someone to rebuild a water pump
#1423913 Tue Sep 14 2021 01:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 619
S
showme Offline OP
'Bolter
I've got a '56 235 engine with a GM water pump that needs rebuilt. It's running ok, but it's not spinning as easy as I'd like. I just pulled it off to put on a new one I bought from CP a few years ago, but it's not going to work out. This is the pump model that they use when putting a later model 235 in an earlier truck (mine's a '51 3100). If there's anyone who knows a good rebuilder for these, let me know. Really disappointed the CP doesn't work, even though they say it's made for just this application. The shaft is too short to make contact with the fan blade's center hole when the included spacer is used. The spacer has to be used so the fan will clear the balancer, but the new shaft is not long enough for the pulley, spacer and fan to all ride on it. It's about an eighth inch short of being full bearing on the spacer, also. Bummer. And since I bought it years ago, I don't think they'll take it back. So, if there's anyone who does this kind of work, let me know, please. Thanks

Attached Files
Photo849.jpg (54.03 KB, 137 downloads)
Last edited by showme; Tue Sep 14 2021 01:26 AM.

"When I rest, I rust"
1951 3100 5 window w/ '56 235



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