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Re: 1939 1.5 ton wiring question
Libby007 #1417007 Thu Jul 15 2021 12:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 891
L
'Bolter
If your '39 is like my '37 my comments may help. If not, I will probably confuse you even more.

The harness that you have probably requires you to move the generator cut out to the generator where it belongs. The cut out is essentially a diode that prevents current running from the battery to the generator, turning it into an electric motor when the ignition is on but the motor is off or idling. The field resistance will be located on the body of the light switch. This resistance is bypassed when the light switch is pulled to the first stop (used when there is heavy current demand for heater/radio). The next stop of the switch is for parking lights which also bypasses the resistor, as well as the third and final stop for the headlights. If you don't have such a light switch then none of this is true, such as a later generic switch with the normal off/park/headlight stops.

The ammeter should have a fuse on the body of the gauge. This is your only fuse unless you have placed in line fuses for heater, etc.

By modern standards, or even standards of the late 40s, this system seems archaic. You actually have to look at your ammeter when driving and pull the light switch to the first stop if you are doing stop and go driving or using the radio or heater. On the first stop, no lights come on, you are just bypassing the resistor. Also, if you drive for hours at highway speeds, to keep from overcharging the battery you may want to drive with your lights on. I find this rather charming and part of the character of these older vehicles.
Kent

Last edited by Lightholder's Dad; Thu Jul 15 2021 12:26 AM. Reason: clarity

1937 Chevy 1/2 ton
1942 Chevy 1/2 ton
1947 Diamond T Model 509
1951 Chevy 1/2 ton
1950 Chevy COE Model 5700 ~ "Barney" ~ And more pix
Re: 1939 1.5 ton wiring question
Libby007 #1417009 Thu Jul 15 2021 12:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 610
B
Curmudgeon
The #1 rule in rebuilding/restoring anything complicated is take a lot of good pictures and have it available for reference.

At the top of your instruction sheet it sheet says 1934-38 Chevy or 1936-38 GMC. Things changed in 1939.

The first step "Wire# 1" on your sheet. There is no cut-out on the generator (your picture) because (I think and don't know 100%) your generator is a newer model. If you know for sure that this generator was working properly then I would get the model number off of the oval Delco plate. Search for information on this model and see how it is supposed to be connected. Post what you have learned on this topic. As I was saying previously, a lot of things changed in 1939 and your truck may have had a change to another generator.

Wire #14 on your sheet. Also look at the note below for Wire #14. What headlight switch type do you have? Attached is a diagram of a 1934 Chevy car.

Attached Files
1934 Chevrolet Car Wiring.jpg (40.03 KB, 113 downloads)
Last edited by buoymaker; Thu Jul 15 2021 12:47 AM.
Re: 1939 1.5 ton wiring question
Libby007 #1417567 Tue Jul 20 2021 11:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 21
L
'Bolter
Update: I have my ammeter reading right and the instrument lights working now, just not the headlights. I've had to order the terminal blocks for the headlights that go on the splash aprons, I'm thinking its a ground issue, I had to use the sealed beam conversion plugs supplied with the harness, would have been nice if they labled the wires on those! When the parts come in I'll try them, if everything works I'll post more pictures. Just a quick question, I am using the original cut out on the truck, do they typically get warm while in operation? Mine gets pretty warm to the touch after probably 5 or 10 minutes.


1939 Chevy 1 1/2 ton with 216
Re: 1939 1.5 ton wiring question
Libby007 #1417762 Thu Jul 22 2021 06:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 610
B
Curmudgeon
It's hard to help you when we don't know which/what generator you have.
Attached is some information on a third brush generator.

Attached Files
3rd Brush Generator 01.jpg (161.95 KB, 75 downloads)
3rd Brush Generator 02.jpg (198.46 KB, 74 downloads)
Re: 1939 1.5 ton wiring question
buoymaker #1417808 Fri Jul 23 2021 01:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 21
L
'Bolter
Originally Posted by buoymaker
It's hard to help you when we don't know which/what generator you have.
Attached is some information on a third brush generator.
Sorry I didn't realize I hadn't mentioned the model, its a Delco Remy 1100002 according to the data plate.
Also the headlight switch is one of those universal ones that look like the ones from the '47 and on trucks, it seems to work fine. The instrument lights come on just fine, pretty sure the terminal blocks I ordered will help the headlight problem. I appreciate all the help, it can be a pain at times, but bringing these old trucks back to life is a good feeling.

Last edited by Libby007; Fri Jul 23 2021 01:22 AM.

1939 Chevy 1 1/2 ton with 216
Re: 1939 1.5 ton wiring question
Libby007 #1417828 Fri Jul 23 2021 03:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 610
B
Curmudgeon
If someone has a Delco Remy Service Manual page for a 1937 Oldsmobile they could share? If, not maybe the attachment will be good enough.

This is what I read:
Delco Remy 1100002 is similar to the 936-T. The 1100002 has higher output current ratings. Fixed third brush.
External voltage regulated.
Oldsmobile used the Delco Remy 5814 (4 terminal) voltage regulator to go with this generator.
Generator terminal "A" to regulator terminal "Gen".
Generator terminal "F" to regulator terminal "F".
Regulator terminal "Ign." to ignition switch. Note: Olds. switch with at least 3 terminals.
Regulator terminal "Bat." to ammeter "+"

In the older Chevrolet Master Parts List, the 1100002 is listed as getting a return credit towards a rebuilt generator.

Attached Files
3rd Brush Generator 03.jpg (108.34 KB, 59 downloads)
Re: 1939 1.5 ton wiring question
Libby007 #1417833 Fri Jul 23 2021 05:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,008
H
'Bolter
If you possibly can, find someone in your area who understands how a 3-brush DC generator works, and pay him twice what he asks to sort out that mess. You'll come out money ahead, as the likely result of the direction you're headed right now is going to end up with a major wiring fire. Asking for advice from most of the people on the stovebolt site is only going to confuse you, as they're far too young to have ever worked with that type of charging system.

If you're going to stay with the 6 volt system and a generator/regulator charging system, at least upgrade to the system with a 2-brush generator and a 3-unit regulator that was used in the early 1950's. In a couple of weeks, I'm headed to east Tennessee to set up that type of system that's been installed as an upgrade to a 1935 Cadillac that's been restored to look brand new. The owner was trying to use the original wiring diagram, which was for a 3-brush generator and a cutout relay.

I have a Delco-Remy service manual from the early 1950's which covers several types of 3-brush charging systems, with wiring diagrams and service procedures. Send me a PM with your email address, and I can send you some copies of the manual pages.

Good luck!
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: 1939 1.5 ton wiring question
Hotrod Lincoln #1417861 Fri Jul 23 2021 02:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 21
L
'Bolter
Originally Posted by Hotrod Lincoln
If you possibly can, find someone in your area who understands how a 3-brush DC generator works, and pay him twice what he asks to sort out that mess. You'll come out money ahead, as the likely result of the direction you're headed right now is going to end up with a major wiring fire. Asking for advice from most of the people on the stovebolt site is only going to confuse you, as they're far too young to have ever worked with that type of charging system.

If you're going to stay with the 6 volt system and a generator/regulator charging system, at least upgrade to the system with a 2-brush generator and a 3-unit regulator that was used in the early 1950's. In a couple of weeks, I'm headed to east Tennessee to set up that type of system that's been installed as an upgrade to a 1935 Cadillac that's been restored to look brand new. The owner was trying to use the original wiring diagram, which was for a 3-brush generator and a cutout relay.

I have a Delco-Remy service manual from the early 1950's which covers several types of 3-brush charging systems, with wiring diagrams and service procedures. Send me a PM with your email address, and I can send you some copies of the manual pages.

Good luck!
Jerry
Sent you a PM, The truck is only going to be used in a short parade in September then will be set aside until I can either get a different generator with a voltage regulator instead of a cut out, or I will convert to 12 Volt.


1939 Chevy 1 1/2 ton with 216
Re: 1939 1.5 ton wiring question
Libby007 #1417864 Fri Jul 23 2021 02:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 610
B
Curmudgeon
For what it's worth, if any, I read:

"Adjustable" third brush generator uses a cut-out.
"Fixed" third brush generator uses a matched voltage regulator.


Here it is from vccachat:

The 1938-39 passenger car generator is different from the truck generator. ****The truck used the old 1937 car generator that did not use a voltage control.**** Later there was a Delco Universal generator sold that covered all applications from 1929-39. Its use required different third brush settings and grounding of fields and should not be confused with any of the many generators used from 1929-39. The proper 1938-39 car generator is a 1100004.The universal was a 1100460, later changed to 1100502 in new and 1100503 in rebuilt. These universals are basically a 1939 unit that can be adapted to all applications but not the same as the original 1100004 unit. Among other things it's third brush must be adjusted differently for the various applications and a pully with a fan must be used for the higher settings.

So, the options are:

* To be original, then what's in the truck now is wrong. Need correct generator, cut-out, light switch, etc.
* To keep the 1100002, then a Delco Remy 5814 (or equivalent?) is needed. If the generator brushes are worn etc., needs a rebuild.
* Update to more modern 6 volt generator and regulator.
* Update to more modern 12 volt generator and regulator and do a complete 6 volt to 12 volt conversion.
* Update to modern alternator and do a complete 6 volt to 12 volt conversion.

I'm done.

Re: 1939 1.5 ton wiring question
Libby007 #1417865 Fri Jul 23 2021 02:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,008
H
'Bolter
I'm sending the OP copies of several Delco-Remy service manual pages. Also, there are numerous listings on Ebay for 6 volt cutout relays, at very reasonable prices. Other than normal engine compartment heat, a cutout relay should not get "warm". That probably indicates yours has some dirty points that are causing resistance in the charging circuit and developing some unwanted heat. I'd suggest either wiring the system according to the Delco diagrams with a new cutout, or simply acquiring a 6 volt golf cart battery and running on battery power alone for the one-time parade, using the generator with no wires attached as an idler for the water pump. A golf cart battery will have enough reserve capacity to run the engine for several hours with no charging system, unless a bunch of lights, sirens, etc. are also being operated at the same time.
Jerry

Edit: Also on Ebay, there are several 10-SI Delco alternators that have been converted to 6 Volt operation. They're in the $200.00 range, but that makes conversion to alternator charging more or less a "plug and play" situation with very little modification to the rest of the electrical system. No converting of lights, ignition, etc. to 12 volts.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
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