The Stovebolt.com Forums Home | FAQ | Forum | Swap Meet | Gallery | Tech Tips | Events | Features | Search | Hoo-Ya Shop
Big Thanks!

Big THANKS to

MONGO
for hosting
the weekend event.



Read all about it.


Stovebolt Site Search
'
Oh Lord, I just gotta find it....

A pdf guide to help you search the Site


Old Truck Calendars
Months of truck photos!
Nothing like an old truck calendar

Stovebolt Calendars

Check for details!


Who's Online Now
8 members (50GMC253, GMCJammer51, Hotrod Lincoln, marzach, drdoug, 1 invisible), 133 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums60
Topics125,433
Posts1,012,857
Members45,231
Most Online1,229
Jan 21st, 2020
Image Posting Policy
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: What is the right order to replace sheet metal parts?
Gray_Ghost #1413334 Wed Jun 09 2021 07:52 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,434
B
Sir Searchalot
As usual, Carl is spot on. I don't use "spot on" very often but it sounds English and they talk smart. So trying it out.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
I used to think beer was bad for me, so I gave up thinking.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense.
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.
Honk if you're Amish


Re: What is the right order to replace sheet metal parts?
Gray_Ghost #1413408 Thu Jun 10 2021 01:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 129
T
Professional procrastinator
Very apropos when talking about "spot" welding panels!


1946 Chevy 3/4T panel
1947.2 GMC 1/2T panel
1947.2 GMC 1/2T long bed
1948 GMC 1/2T pick-up

Re: What is the right order to replace sheet metal parts?
Gray_Ghost #1413452 Thu Jun 10 2021 06:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 4
8
Moderated
I'm going through a similar effort as you right now. I've done some metal patchwork here-and-there before. But, never as much as I'm doing on this truck. Basically, replacing lower cowl, door pillar, kick panels and rocker panels. Looking for a respectable appearance but not show quality.

While I'm not completely disassembling everything at once as in Kevin's (very excellent) pictures, I am doing one side at a time. It would be great to have the space, time and resources required to yank the cab and do the work off the frame. I just don't have that type of setup. Plus, it helps to reference the other side if something unexpected comes up. And, I know I don't work very fast or have that long of an attention span. So, my intent is to work on a different portion each winter and drive the truck in the warmer months.

Here are some things I've found (with repeats of comments above) getting this (almost) done.

While I can't control what's rotted out and no longer there, I do try to limit the amount of metal I cut out to only what's rusted to get to good metal. For example, rather than replace the entire floorboard or outer cowl, I bought replacement panels and chop them up to make the necessary patches. In my case, some things had to be completely replaced (rocker panel). Limiting the amount of removed metal, I think, helps keep things in place with minimal bracing required. I know this isn't always possible. But, from your picture, it looks like you wouldn't have to replace the entire floor. Well, unless you want to!

As per the above, before cutting things up, try to get measurements or make braces or jigs to help line things up later. For example, I had to replace the lower door pillar to a point just above the hinge. Before removing that section, I drilled two plates to match the hinge mounting and welded a bar between them. When it came time to weld in the new patch panel/hinge, I bolted that jig between the top hinge and the patch panel hinge to make sure the orientation was correct. Made replacement easy. Of course, this only works if you have a place to start. I'm interested to see how the parking brake braces and hardware line up when it's done. All of that was rusted out with no way to get measurements before starting.

Next, unless you're using NOS panels/sheetmetal, not much is going to line up perfectly. This has been mentioned on this board a number of times. I couldn't agree more! One of the things I've tried doing that relates to your "where do I start" question is to prioritize mounting points and body lines. Then, work from there. I mentioned replacing the lower door pillar. Most important thing was to get the hinge mounting perfect. When I did that, I had to "tweak" the door pillar-to-rocker panel area. The other important area is the outer cowl. Getting the hood/door/fender gaps and fender mounting right is most important. If I need to "tweak" the hidden pieces between the outer cowl and kick panel, that's what I'll do.

My specific sequence was : rocker panel, floorboard, door pillar, outer cowl, kick panel, inner cowl. This made sense since I didn't need to replace too much of the floorboard. From your picture, I might have done the floorboard before the rocker panel? Like the outer and inner cowl pieces, there's a lot of contact between the two that can limit how far you can move things before you have to cut/weld to get things to fit.

Finally, keep references like Kevin's pictures at hand. I really wish I'd have seen those before I started. Really helps to see how things are supposed to go together. Manuals and drawings are good to have. But, there's something about an actual picture during step-by-step replacement that really helps me understand how things go together.

Re: What is the right order to replace sheet metal parts?
52Carl #1413664 Sat Jun 12 2021 09:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 123
W
'Bolter
Excellent advice all around, but especially "beware the ring of death". Wish I saw 5 years ago.
I had less rust than you, so thought bolting to frame and replacing the absolute minimum would be fine. Everyone is right that you should brace and measure carefully and cut minimally to keep the geometry. But also, check some of your starting measurements against other trucks too. if the cab has rust and some "history", your geometry could be out of whack to start. Diistortions might not show up anywhere else, but end up with bad news at door fit time.

Last edited by wurlitzer46; Sat Jun 12 2021 09:05 PM.

52 3100 project
54 3100 / 3112 ice cream truck, next project
Re: What is the right order to replace sheet metal parts?
Gray_Ghost #1414275 Sat Jun 19 2021 01:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 241
G
'Bolter
Taking the advice to heart, I've been doing some research and have come up with some questions. I've attached a page from the FAM, which I've highlighted a couple of areas. The questions:

1. The drawings make several references to the O line. I'm assuming that is the zero line shown at the bottom, followed by the 10 line, 20 line, etc. and accompanied by the corresponding grid on the side. Is this correct?
2. If so, then it looks like the top of the frame sits at the 10 inch line and the floor sits at the 11.88 inch line. That would indicate that the floor sits 1.88 inches above the frame. Is this correct?

This would give me the reference to use to correct the leaning of my cab, which currently leans to the right.

3. The drawing is labelled with "LD" at the end of the name. There is a corresponding drawing that looks very similar, but not exactly the same with the label "RD". I'm assuming that the LD is left and RD is right. Is this correct? Does it make a difference?

I know I'll have more questions along the way.... Thanks for everyone's patience with me as I try to figure this out!

Attached Files
cab welding instructions highlighted.jpg (237.47 KB, 100 downloads)

Mike

1953 3100
1994 Chevy 1500 (Donated to charity 2016)
2002 Chevy S10 ZR2

My Restoration Adventure Blog [grayghost53.blogspot.com]
Re: What is the right order to replace sheet metal parts?
Gray_Ghost #1414276 Sat Jun 19 2021 02:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,202
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
LD is lefthand drive and RD is righthand drive.


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
‘65 Chevy Biscayne 4dr 230 I-6 one owner (I’m #2) “Emily”
‘39 Dodge Businessmans Coupe “Clarence”



"I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop!
USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)

Re: What is the right order to replace sheet metal parts?
Justhorsenround #1414283 Sat Jun 19 2021 02:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 241
G
'Bolter
Wow! I'd have never figured that out! So I can completely disregard the righthand drive drawing.


Mike

1953 3100
1994 Chevy 1500 (Donated to charity 2016)
2002 Chevy S10 ZR2

My Restoration Adventure Blog [grayghost53.blogspot.com]
Re: What is the right order to replace sheet metal parts?
Gray_Ghost #1414297 Sat Jun 19 2021 05:27 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,475
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
You are right on with your understanding of the reference "0" lines on that drawing. It's a valuable tool for putting a cab back together. Also helpful are a couple pages toward the end of section 1 of the FAM that give dimensions for the circled reference points on the drawing you posted. Those can used to establish the correct location of those points in reference to the "0" lines.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: What is the right order to replace sheet metal parts?
klhansen #1414300 Sat Jun 19 2021 05:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 241
G
'Bolter
Yep, I had found the notes pages with the dimensions for the circled numbers. I should have mentioned them in my post....

Since the zero line is actually below any of the structure of the cab or frame, I'm guessing that point must have been on an assembly jig that the factory used. If so, it would make using a standard to measure those identified points simple...but I'm guessing. Since the frame top is at 10 inches, I can build a small wood box, who's top sits 10 inches below the top of the frame. That would give me the zero line from which to measure the other points.


Mike

1953 3100
1994 Chevy 1500 (Donated to charity 2016)
2002 Chevy S10 ZR2

My Restoration Adventure Blog [grayghost53.blogspot.com]
Re: What is the right order to replace sheet metal parts?
Gray_Ghost #1414302 Sat Jun 19 2021 06:15 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,475
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
I think you're probably right on the assembly jig. I can't think of another reason why the reference line would be below the body other than to eliminate negative numbers.

I just used the floor as a reference and did a little math to figure elevations of other points (or used other points to correctly position the new floor I put in.) But your wood frame would do the same thing, and eliminate the need to subtract any dimensions.

I did clamp a piece of angle on the front of the dash to use as a reference for the front cab support locations horizontally.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  HandyAndy, klhansen 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Home | FAQ | Forum | Swap Meet | Gallery | Tech Tips | Events | Features | Search | Hoo-Ya Shop
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4