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Re: Truck wont start
SteveJ #1412201 Tue Jun 01 2021 02:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 558
B
Curmudgeon
Thumbs up Jerry. That's cool. You need to post a new topic. Things we need to make an AD truck survival kit.

Re: Truck wont start
bartamos #1412205 Tue Jun 01 2021 02:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 17
S
SteveJ Offline OP
'Bolter
Originally Posted by bartamos
As far as grounds, it's only a few.
1. Ground Connection at battery post. Clean, inspect and reclamp.
2. Ground Connection at starter mounting bolt. This is where battery ground is attached. Clean to bare metal and inspect.
3. Starter bolting to bell housing. Clean to bare metal at starter face and bell housing face. No paint!!!
4. Ground strap is not in play.

Next issues:
1. Battery positive cable post. Clean, inspect and reclamp.
2. Battery positive cable to starter button stud. Check.
3. Battery breakdown under load. Get it load test at two FLAPS.
4. Starter breakdown under load. Get it tested if you can find anyone to test it.
5. Be sure starter drive "bendix" is engaging. What exactly is the "clank"??????


Other unspeakables:
1. Hydraulic lock- check oil for milky look.
2. Timing gear and other mechanicals broken.
3. Trickle chargers have been known to sulfate batteries.

Bless our Troops: Past and present. Near and far.

So in this set up you do not use the ground strap? Here is my current set up, I removed the starter switch during troubleshooting and unhooked the linkage to the foot pedal thinking I was going to pull the starter.

Attached Files
20210531_210421.jpg (269.37 KB, 182 downloads)

1949 chevy 3600
First attempt at restoration
Re: Truck wont start
SteveJ #1412206 Tue Jun 01 2021 02:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 22,585
H
'Bolter
There are several places in the linkage from the pedal to the starter where pivot holes wear oblong and/or the ends of linkages wear down to smaller diameters. Add up a few wear points, and you run out of movement to the point that the starter drive engages the flywheel, but the button doesn't get pushed far enough to spin the motor. Inspect the link from the pedal linkage to the starter lever for wear, and also take a look at the two loops where the pedal linkage bolts to the bell housing. Over a few decades of use and untold thousands of starts, things can get pretty sloppy.

The strap from the engine to the frame is currently supplying a ground path for the lights, horn, and other body-mounted electrical items. I'd suggest disconnecting that junction and wire-brushing everything shiny clean. All it takes is one dirty or loose connection anywhere to interrupt the circuit or make it intermittent.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Truck wont start
SteveJ #1412207 Tue Jun 01 2021 02:44 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,245
B
Sir Searchalot
As Jerry says, we are talking about slop in all the pivot points in the foot start mechanism. If all holes/pins are worn out, there may not be enough throw left to slide the pinion gear all the way into the flywheel teeth or push the button or both. I think I repeated what he said. After hooking it all up, you can operate the foot mechanism from under the hood with a piece of 2 x 4. Disconnect the center tower wire on coil so it won't start. Place in neutral and apply ebrake and stand aside. This will allow you to observe what is happening or not happening. If the bottle cap spacer did nothing, that's good info for you to use to move forward.

I think I see you don't have the negative battery cable attached to the starter bolt. That would be a better place. At any rate, take it off and clean the bolt spot and the cable eye.
What I meant by strap not in play is: if cable was connected to starter bolt.
You don't have a motor won't start case. You have a motor won't turn over case. Two VERY different troubleshooting procedures.
We caught on quick, but try to be precise. We can't see it or hear it or test it from our house.

Other things to be careful of are:
1. The part/battery/cable is "new"
2. I checked that/cleaned that/did that already
3. Sounds and movements and your observations are very important
4. No guessing

You are nice to deal with because you are asking questions and listening and trying....and staying with the post.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense.
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.
Honk if you're Amish


Re: Truck wont start
SteveJ #1412208 Tue Jun 01 2021 03:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 558
B
Curmudgeon
I'm responding to the posting with the picture of the starter with switch removed.

Here is a picture that I borrowed from a previous forum posting (link below).

Hopefully I can explain without making it more confusing. The engine must have a ground. The copper braided strap goes from the bolt (as shown in your picture) to the truck frame. As originally designed, the negative post on the battery will have a ground strap or a cable that goes to the truck frame. In your picture I see a cable on the same bolt as the strap. This cable is probably going to the negative post of your battery. This arrangement will probably work okay but it's not to the original design.

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...on-a-1954-chevrolet-3100.html#Post973142

Attached Files
Strap.jpg (90.11 KB, 142 downloads)
Re: Truck wont start
bartamos #1412209 Tue Jun 01 2021 03:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 17
S
SteveJ Offline OP
'Bolter
Thanks for the help. I will check the linkages and clean everything this weekend.

Steve


1949 chevy 3600
First attempt at restoration
Re: Truck wont start
SteveJ #1412211 Tue Jun 01 2021 03:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 558
B
Curmudgeon
If it's not too much trouble, you can remove the transmission cover which will give easier access.
Here are some pictures to help identify the linkage.
Also check the switch mounting holes. If they are stripped, the switch will move.

Attached Files
Foot Starter 01.jpg (71.89 KB, 132 downloads)
Foot Starter 02.jpg (48.6 KB, 133 downloads)
Foot Starter 03.jpg (41.04 KB, 131 downloads)
Re: Truck wont start
SteveJ #1412235 Tue Jun 01 2021 02:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 22,585
H
'Bolter
The original ground setup was a matter of economics, not good design. It's cheaper to manufacture a couple of short braided cables than one long, heavy one. Adding a couple of potential high resistance connections that carry starter current to a circuit is beyond stupid! It's much smarter to use a long, heavy ground cable from the battery to as close to the starter housing as possible, and use the braided strap to carry lower current circuits from the body and/or frame back to the battery. This situation is just one of many where the bean counters won the battle.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Truck wont start
SteveJ #1412490 Thu Jun 03 2021 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 473
P
'Bolter
I can still hear my father telling me, with my first electrical issue, "probably a bad ground". Since then, whenever anything goes sideways with my electrical issues, more often than not, that ends up being the problem.

Even in my most recent debacle, it was ground-related. However, it wasn't that the ground was bad/missing, the problem wire inadvertently ENDED UP getting attached to one of my grounds (smacks head). Nevertheless, grounds are probably the #1 issue, from my experience.

You have some really smart people contributing in this thread- I have no doubt that the issue will be resolved very quickly!


1957 Chevy Panel Truck, powered by SBC 350 from 1977 Camaro
Author, Bring CHANGE Into Your Life (a truly easy investment tool)
https://www.amazon.com/Bring-CHANGE-Into-truly-investment/dp/1077276869
Re: Truck wont start
SteveJ #1412772 Sat Jun 05 2021 02:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 17
S
SteveJ Offline OP
'Bolter
So I did everything you guys recommended today - cleaned all the contacts (that I was sure I had cleaned before well enough), checked the linkages and turned over and started first try.

Thank you so much, you guys are amazing. Frustration over!


1949 chevy 3600
First attempt at restoration
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