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Re: Lap or butt?
MPandC #1411850 Sat May 29 2021 04:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 473
P
'Bolter
Originally Posted by MPandC
As to the blowing holes, don’t be so quick to turn down the heat, I would first adjust to a faster wire feed setting and then adjust the operator to a shorter duration on the trigger pull. A faster, hotter weld tack will give you flatter weld with better penetration. So in essence the quicker on-off of the trigger pull gives you less heat without sacrificing weld penetration. See the “MIG welding tips and tricks” sticky at the top of the page for more Info.

For fixing the tailgate in the video, it is only going to get worse with time and exposure to sunlight (think car shows). It would need to be pulled apart and another patch welded in using a butt weld, unless what is there could be saved by cutting off the excess metal (flange). Then, planish and grind down the welds to get the weld seam as close to panel thickness as you can, for the best possibility of eliminating differing expansion/contraction rates and thus eliminating a return of the ghost line.

Looking at your weld picture above, I think the other part of your blowout situation is the wider gaps in some areas. The tighter you get those gaps, the better. Also explained in the tips thread.

Thanks for the info! I did actually try adjusting the wire speed first, before bumping down the heat. I'll keep at it, though!

Bummer for the guy's car in the vid! That's why in our family, we pretty much stick to the '10 footer' grade of car smile if it turns out better, well, we'll take it!


1957 Chevy Panel Truck, powered by SBC 350 from 1977 Camaro
Author, Bring CHANGE Into Your Life (a truly easy investment tool)
https://www.amazon.com/Bring-CHANGE-Into-truly-investment/dp/1077276869
Re: Lap or butt?
texczech #1411855 Sat May 29 2021 04:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,351
J
'Bolter
Originally Posted by texczech
Would like more info & detail on using the silver solder and JB Weld!

Silver bearing solder (like Harris StayBrite) is a fluxable solder (uses an acid flux) and will join not just copper, brass and metals in that family but also ferrous metals. And it will solder them very well and as strong as goat's breath. The benefit is this solder melts at about 450 F, so you won't be warping things or blowing holes in metal, etc and when you're done, you can grind/sand it in the same fashion that lead was once used. It isn't cheap, but no solder sold today is cheap. One of the neatest ways to use this is to get a pair of Vise Grip flange pliers. Use those to make a flange on the piece you're soldering to and then cut the part you're replacing to fit nicely on that flange. Then clean both pieces, add flux (will be like water but acid), heat and solder. When you're finished, mix soda in some water and pour it in/over to neutralize the acid. And in a fraction of the time and a fraction of the irritation/confusion, you're done. Say for example you're replacing the bottom 8 inches of a door skin. Measure and cut, leaving an extra 1 inch for the flange (or whatever size your pliers are), use your pliers to flange the door and then set the new piece on top. Add flux and solder away. With no more heat than you're using, it isn't going to act all funky on you. It will just sit there and behave until you're done.

As for J.B. Weld, I do the same basic thing but if you don't have flange pliers or if the area won't be compatible with those, cut a piece of the same weight metal to be a back-up plate for you. This will go around the inside of the piece you're epoxying to. Let's say you're replacing a radio cut that somebody made a mess out of. You'd clean that up, epoxy the back-up plate behind the cut and let it set. Some of the J.B. Weld will set in 6 to 8 minutes, so keep that in mind. You may want to make 4 back-up pieces if you are working on a square or rectangular piece. That in essence will be your flange. Once that sets, then apply epoxy to the back-up piece and the piece you're attaching as the replacement, get it all aligned correctly and use a piece of masking tape to hold the pieces in place. When that sets, remove the tape, give it 24 hours to fully cure and you can sand the seam just as if you had used Bondo. You can use either of these approaches in either areas subject to stress or areas (like your radio cutout) which see no stress or very little stress. A friend of mine once cut a rear fender in half (top/bottom) and cut another in the same place (one without damage on the bottom), joined both with J.B. Weld and the seam never gave him any problem. It took him two packages of J.B. Weld to do this, but how much does that cost? $6 for a package? That's a lot cheaper and easier than welding and...J.B. Weld will never rust. Besides as I said before it is a heck of a lot easier to grind/sand/finish.

Please don't get me wrong. I was trained as a welder and have done it professionally. Welding is fine, brazing is fine...but it is just like I would expect performing surgery is. The more you do it, the better your work gets.


Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Re: Lap or butt?
pan3lman #1411873 Sat May 29 2021 06:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,351
J
'Bolter
Below you can see where I repaired the pillar to roof seam on mine 40 years ago using J.B. Weld. This area definitely gets stress and it hasn't gone anywhere since then.

Attached Files
roof to pillar.jpg (17.15 KB, 67 downloads)

Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Re: Lap or butt?
Jon G #1411897 Sat May 29 2021 10:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 473
P
'Bolter
Originally Posted by Jon G
Below you can see where I repaired the pillar to roof seam on mine 40 years ago using J.B. Weld. This area definitely gets stress and it hasn't gone anywhere since then.
I may try this on my driver door. On the area where it is by the front pillar, the door metal is cracked. I'm wondering if someone pulled on it at some point in order to rip the door open. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this poor truck!!


1957 Chevy Panel Truck, powered by SBC 350 from 1977 Camaro
Author, Bring CHANGE Into Your Life (a truly easy investment tool)
https://www.amazon.com/Bring-CHANGE-Into-truly-investment/dp/1077276869
Re: Lap or butt?
pan3lman #1411925 Sun May 30 2021 12:57 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,258
"Hey! I sound like Darth Vader!!
I would suggest making the hole smoother. And clean all the paint and rust away. Round the corners. Then hammer the edges flat and straight. Then take your patch piece and, if you can hold it from behind, trace the hole on to the patch piece. If you can't reach behind, use a magnet. Then go trim your patch piece. Sneak up to that line and leave a lot of the line there. Test fit, trim a little, test fit, trim a little, repeat. What, you have a car show to go to next week? No, you have plenty of time. If rain is coming, walk away until the rain goes away. In other words, don't rush it. Like any job that isn't rushed, you'll have a better result. Same with when you start welding. Take your time, don't rush it. Check it often to see which way your metal is moving so you can react accordingly.

Re: Lap or butt?
Jon G #1411975 Sun May 30 2021 02:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 63
T
6 heaven
The silver solder was a great idea and your explanation on how to use it was great! one last(maybe) question about the silver solder, what type of heat source do you use? propane torch for lower heat or acetylene torch? Seems like a lower heat source would be helpful for a beginner, or any other suggestions. Thanks for giving the details!

Re: Lap or butt?
MNSmith #1411985 Sun May 30 2021 02:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 473
P
'Bolter
Originally Posted by MNSmith
I would suggest making the hole smoother. And clean all the paint and rust away. Round the corners. Then hammer the edges flat and straight. Then take your patch piece and, if you can hold it from behind, trace the hole on to the patch piece. If you can't reach behind, use a magnet. Then go trim your patch piece. Sneak up to that line and leave a lot of the line there. Test fit, trim a little, test fit, trim a little, repeat. What, you have a car show to go to next week? No, you have plenty of time. If rain is coming, walk away until the rain goes away. In other words, don't rush it. Like any job that isn't rushed, you'll have a better result. Same with when you start welding. Take your time, don't rush it. Check it often to see which way your metal is moving so you can react accordingly.
Appreciate the tips. Thanks!


1957 Chevy Panel Truck, powered by SBC 350 from 1977 Camaro
Author, Bring CHANGE Into Your Life (a truly easy investment tool)
https://www.amazon.com/Bring-CHANGE-Into-truly-investment/dp/1077276869
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