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LPG or NG?
#1411627 Thu May 27 2021 08:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 705
B
Curmudgeon
I'm posting this out of curiosity.

It's not mine and I know there is some info about "converting to propane" in Tech Tips.
I've never seen a conversion on an 1950 pickup so I borrowed the pictures.
Someone has it listed on East Oregon Craigslist.
I see what looks like a regulator at the bottom of the firewall.
What is the device above it with all the hoses?

Attached Files
LPG or NG 01.jpg (80.91 KB, 195 downloads)
LPG or NG 02.jpg (53.09 KB, 194 downloads)
Re: LPG or NG?
buoymaker #1411631 Thu May 27 2021 09:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,246
H
'Bolter
It's a heat exchanger that converts the liquid LP to a gas, using hot engine coolant. Simply releasing the pressure on the fuel in the tank does not allow enough of it to evaporate to run anything larger than a good-sized lawn mower engine. After doing maintenance on a fleet of LP-powered vehicles, it would be hard to run fast enough to give me a system like the one pictured. The fuel vapor passing through the same throttle body as the air displaces enough air to cause a 10% or greater power loss on the average LP-fueled engine. The only ones I've seen that produce acceptable power inject the liquid fuel below the throttle plates. The engine also needs to have a very high compression ratio to make use of the fuel efficiently, since LP gas has about a 110 octane rating.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: LPG or NG?
buoymaker #1411635 Thu May 27 2021 09:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,213
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
Back in the early 90s ONG (Oklahoma Natural Gas) put on a big pitch to my city to convert the fleet to use their product. They supplied us with a entire kit to convert one of our Patrol Cars over and the mechanic to do it. Stock 350 Chevy Police Package with about 20000 miles. I was tasked with doing the testing since I was the Departments driving instructor. There was a toggle switch mounted on the radio stack that allowed me to switch back and forth between natural gas and gasoline. I took baseline readings on gasoline from dead stop to 80mph at full throttle letting the transmission shift on its own. Then switched to natural gas and duplicated the test. The difference was dramatic. Natural gas was like driving a 60s VW while gasoline was as it always had been. I also tested starting out from 0 and accelerating to 60 on natural gas then flipping the switch to gasoline while holding the accelerator to the floor. It was like hitting passing gear. I wrote up my findings and presented them to the Chief. The next day the system was removed from the patrol car and ONG was sent packing. I believe the system was used on a few of the public works trucks but never mentioned again for police cars.


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
‘65 Chevy Biscayne 4dr 230 I-6 one owner (I’m #2) “Emily”
‘39 Dodge Businessmans Coupe “Clarence”



"I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop!
USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)

Re: LPG or NG?
buoymaker #1411638 Thu May 27 2021 09:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,053
K
'Bolter
We never tried propane but they tried to set us up with a Volvo patrol car which went pretty good but no room .I always liked the chev caprice package over the crown Victoria .


kevinski 1954 GMC 9300 Welcome to the virtual Garage [stovebolt.com]
Re: LPG or NG?
buoymaker #1411653 Thu May 27 2021 11:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 931
F
'Bolter
buoymaker That is a rough installation of propane equipment !! Someone that ubderstands it can make that run like a charm ! I wouldn't trade mine for any sorry vapor locking gasoline burner!! Works really well with HEI too,no fuel pump to fight ! that thing below is a fuel lock (shut-off) and filter.

Re: LPG or NG?
buoymaker #1411662 Fri May 28 2021 12:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,256
C
Carburetion specialist
Buoymaker - isn't there an old cliche about curiosity and a cat? grin

I would love to have the super sales person (and the government incentive person) that sold all the local school systems on the benefits??? of propane some years ago for school buses, working for me. Darn near BROKE every school system in several counties! Those no good for nothing individuals would be set to manually digging post-holes in Miller county from dawn to dusk! Oh, and there is only one rock in Miller county. It is under the entire county! Anywhere from sticking out to four inches deep. Taxes went UP because of those propane conversions!

Talk about how to break an engine!

I have no personal knowledge of CNG, so no comment on that.

Jon.


Good carburetion is fuelish hot air
The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify
If you truly believe "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!
[image]http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Avatar.jpg[/image]
Re: LPG or NG?
buoymaker #1411718 Fri May 28 2021 01:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 705
B
Curmudgeon
Jon that's why I carry a rubber finger so when I point and say, "what's that", the fan blade doesn't eat up my good finger.
Thanks everybody for the education.

Re: LPG or NG?
carbking #1411741 Fri May 28 2021 03:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 931
F
'Bolter
carbking I assume your inventory of carburators con tains no LPG carbs ! LOL I have noticed at swap meets that not many can recognize them or related parts. That is OK I'll dispose of them!!!

Re: LPG or NG?
buoymaker #1411752 Fri May 28 2021 05:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,256
C
Carburetion specialist
fixite7 - we had a couple of cases of new old stock brass ones made by the Ensign company several years ago. We recycled them (scrap brass). Those things were HEAVY. And no, we do not currently have a single one. We do have roughly 150,000 gasoline carbs, if you need one wink

We currently have about 50 new Zenith LP rebuilding kits. These we are offering at 50 percent of distributor costs. These came in a warehouse buy of about 20,000 Zenith kits we made a few years ago. If you are interested in them all, you may have them at 20 percent of distributor cost, but you have to take them all.

Ensign's tractor carburetor design was purchased by I.H.C. back in the 1930's. Ensign then (or possibly earlier) started producing propane and dual fuel carburetors. About 1985, I finally tracked down the company that bought the remains of Ensign, and asked if they still had the original gasoline carburetor drawings. I got transferred several times, and finally got to the librarian, who told me he had personally overseen the destruction of ALL of the Ensign drawings. They didn't want any of the propane stuff to be reproduced because of the liability, and the lawsuits. I almost cried. We had to purchase (or borrow) original Ensign gasoline carburetors for patterns to make kits for the gasoline carburetors. It took over 30 years to get them all! Ensign made gasoline carburetor for all of the early Caterpillar, and Best crawler tractors, as well as I.H.C. tractors, and a few I.H.C. trucks.

Jon.

Last edited by carbking; Fri May 28 2021 05:47 PM.

Good carburetion is fuelish hot air
The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify
If you truly believe "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!
[image]http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Avatar.jpg[/image]
Re: LPG or NG?
buoymaker #1411760 Fri May 28 2021 06:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,246
H
'Bolter
Good move, Jon- - - - -scrapping those LPG parts! There's no telling how much frustration you've saved people who still believe they're a good substitute for a real fuel system! smile
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
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