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Modern style tie rod ends for AD
#1400739 Tue Mar 09 2021 10:45 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,020
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Bought a pair of modern style tie rod ends for my '51. They're advertised as 32-59 Car/Truck, and I expected them to be standard tapered shank where they go thru the steering arms, but I was really surprised to find that they are basically straight with a step in the shank. Other oddities (pointing to their source as offshore) are M10x1.5 bolts where they clamp on to the rod, but with 5/8 hex heads (kind of a bastardized bolt). My first clue was the 8.8 marking on the bolt head.
I haven't removed the balls from the steering arm yet, but expected to just be able to use a taper reamer on the holes after removing the balls. I have removed the ball from the pitman arm, which appears to be the same shank size as the tie rod balls (judging from pics in the catalogs), and these tie rod ends flop around in the resulting 5/8" nominal hole.

Has anyone had experience with these? It looks like in order to use them, I'd have to bush the holes in the steering arms. I'm tempted to send them back and go with the original style balls on the steering arms and rebuild kits for the original style tie rod ends.

Here's a pic.

Attached Files
IMG_3780.JPG (251.27 KB, 207 downloads)

Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: Modern style tie rod ends for AD
klhansen #1400750 Tue Mar 09 2021 11:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,351
J
'Bolter
Kevin, maybe 10 or 12 years ago I bought tie rod ends made by MOOG (USA) that looked similar to what you just received. MOOG was closing them out (can't recall what they were to fit originally), but they would work fine on the AD trucks if you made bushings for them and the price was right. That is what I did and haven't had any problem. As I recall, the hole was .625" and the shaft was .5625". I used a piece of thin wall conduit tube slit and bent to fit...think I had to reduce the OD a bit. I also put a washer on top where the shaft met the shoulder. Good luck.


Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Re: Modern style tie rod ends for AD
klhansen #1400765 Wed Mar 10 2021 12:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 23
H
'Bolter
Mine fit the holes after driving out the peened in ones, if only just ok when tightened up, when i spoke to my machinist he recommended going taper tie rod ends. (I just dont argue with a race car builder/machinist' recommendation, they see everything through a high stress environment lense)
i went with SpeedwayMotors Ford ends, they had more range of motion on the up/down (y)axis than the ones you have, important on the drag link front location (not relevant on tie rod as that operates only in x axis) if you go this piece by piece route dont forget to order the jam nuts (dont ask).

i bought "Speedway 11/16 Inch Raw Tie Rod/Drag Link Tubing" to use for new tie rod, and 2nd shorter length to make a adjustable drag link.(also bought RH tap from them so i could tune the lengths)

I liked that top part of the ford tie rod taper is narrower than GM ones, less material removed when reaming. BTW he did not taper to the bottom of the holes.......stopped at least 1/8-3/16 short, so taper short & check fit, too deep reduces y axis rotation.....and threads might extend lower out bottom that you might need a fat washer


Hank: 46 Chev 1/2ton shortbed
2018 Miata RF
Re: Modern style tie rod ends for AD
klhansen #1400828 Wed Mar 10 2021 05:25 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,020
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Thanks for the Speedway suggestion. These [speedwaymotors.com] look interesting. They're 7 degree taper studs and the same 1/2-20 thread on the end, but the question is the diameter of the taper right next to the threads. Looks like it might be 5/8-inch diameter, but not shown. That would allow the steering arms to be reamed to fit the taper. The rod threads are smaller though, so the original tie rod would have to be turned down and rethreaded to match. They also have an extended length one that's closer to the ones I bought.
I'll need to do a bit more investigation.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: Modern style tie rod ends for AD
klhansen #1400857 Wed Mar 10 2021 02:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,321
J
'Bolter
I used a set like you purchased and had no problems with fit. I bought my from https://www.bowtiebits.com/index.cfm The straight shank is a direct replacement for the press in balls. No shims or bushings required.

Re: Modern style tie rod ends for AD
klhansen #1400871 Wed Mar 10 2021 05:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 115
T
'Bolter
Great discussion here about the need to pay attention to detail with aftermarket and retrofit parts.

In the original post Kevin noted that the bolt was metric but with an inch size head.

My thinking is that it is a true metric M10x1.5 Class 8.8 Capscrew. It has a 16 mm hex head. Across the globe you will find M10 cap screws with either 14mm, 15 mm, 16 mm, or 17 mm hex head based on the standard used in that country.

Note that 5/8” is 15.88 mm. So a 5/8 wrench or socket is a very nice fit on a nominal size 16 mm hex head. I often use inch tools on metric or metric tools on inch hex heads when I want to slightly tighter fit.

For example, yesterday I used a 14 mm crow’s foot wrench to torque the 2 center 9/16” headed bolts on the manifold of my ‘37. I do not own an inch set of crow’s foot wrenches and the 14 mm fit snuggly on the 9/16” head (14.28 mm).

Last edited by TBUChevy; Wed Mar 10 2021 05:37 PM. Reason: Added 14mm

Rusty
Re: Modern style tie rod ends for AD
klhansen #1400876 Wed Mar 10 2021 05:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,270
G
Insomniac
You should be able to use the 3/4 ton tie rods ends on your 1/2 ton. Probably have to do some reaming and you will need the matching tie rod. My 1/2 ton came with the 3/4 ton tie rod and tie rod ends. (might be something they did on trucks built in Canada)


Gord
----
1954 1/2 ton 235 4 speed
Re: Modern style tie rod ends for AD
klhansen #1400882 Wed Mar 10 2021 07:24 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,020
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
@TBUChevy, I know about some interchangeability between metric and inch size bolt heads, but don't have a 16mm wrench, so assumed it was a 5/8 head. I've never run across a 10MM metric bolt with a 16mm head or I would have had that size wrench. Thanks for the info.

@Joe H, I may find that they fit OK, but haven't gotten the worn balls off the steering arms yet. I had never seen a non-tapered tie rod end before.

@Gord, Thanks for that info. I might see if I can drum up a 3/4 ton tie rod and go that way.

Thanks all for the input.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: Modern style tie rod ends for AD
klhansen #1400965 Thu Mar 11 2021 02:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,321
J
'Bolter
You will find the hole in the arms after you remove the ball ends to be more hourglass shaped then straight. The hourglass gives the metal a place to go when they peen them over, this also makes removing them a little tough. If you go to drilling, don't go past 1/2" or the new ones won't fit. Drill the bottom out to relieve the peening process, then knock them out.

Re: Modern style tie rod ends for AD
klhansen #1401098 Fri Mar 12 2021 07:29 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,020
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Got the steering arms off yesterday and today finally got the tie-rod ends loose and off the balls.

A burning question for you guys. Do you think I can reuse the balls? Here's an example of one and the corresponding cup from the tie rod end. wink

Attached Files
IMG_3787.JPG (242.56 KB, 87 downloads)
IMG_3788.JPG (114.39 KB, 87 downloads)

Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
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