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Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394927 Fri Jan 29 2021 08:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 49
J
Jimmy66 Offline OP
'Bolter
Came in to warm up a bit and research the plugs I bought this summer. They are an E3.46, with a .040” fixed gap, maybe not so much of a problem.

Last edited by Jimmy66; Fri Jan 29 2021 08:20 PM.

Jimmy Deveney
‘66 GMC 3/4 ton pick up
4 speed manual
305E V6
Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394929 Fri Jan 29 2021 08:22 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,164
B
Sir Searchalot
Specified plug is Delco AC4 or equivalent. There is a long reach and a short reach plug. Either works. The plugs are specific for this motor. 14mm threads. Don't buy Champion plugs.

Delco R44XLS

Re E3 plug, I don't think .005 would be a no fire situation. Your issue is "No fire" not "No start". .040-.035= .005 Can you measure the plug gap of the E3?

TDC hard to detect compression stroke with hand turn.

Motor does turn over easier for starter when plugs removed.

Ignitor II has a warning about using solid copper plug wires on Pertronix? I doubt you bought those.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.


Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394932 Fri Jan 29 2021 08:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 49
J
Jimmy66 Offline OP
'Bolter
I just mean to turn it without plugs where I can line up TDC and see where rotor is, not for compression stroke. The markings are very hard to see, what exactly am I looking for? What is marking for True Dead Center? I can see IO and UDC at present.


Jimmy Deveney
‘66 GMC 3/4 ton pick up
4 speed manual
305E V6
Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394935 Fri Jan 29 2021 09:41 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,164
B
Sir Searchalot
UDC= Upper Dead Center...........now called TDC= Top Dead Center. The 10 is ten, 10 degress BTDC (Before Top Dead Center). There is a 1 near UDC, that is TDC dead nuts. Between 1 and 10 is 5 deg BTDC. "Before" is advanced timing. The spec for sea level and the octane used in 1966 is to set timing at the 5. Your motor may run better at 7 or 10 or whatever, All that is later when timed with a light.

Right now you are trying to confirm that rotor and dizzy wires are correct. There are two TDC's, one is an exhaust stroke. One is a compression stroke. Both will show the timing mark at about TDC. One will not fire, the other will. That would be the compression stroke. If a person sets the dizzy up to the exhaust stroke the rotor will be 180 degrees off. If they wire the plug wires wrong, timing will be off in any number of ways.

So this is simple. You figure out when no.1 cylinder is near or at top on the compression stroke. You will feel the force if you plug the hole with thumb or finger and see the mark is at or near TDC "1" mark. Then look at rotor.

If you are at TDC on the exhaust stroke you won't feel any pressure.
It's not super critical exactly where the pointer is. Should be at "1" or towards 10. It all depends on when a person stops turning motor when they feel pressure. You can then bring crankshaft around twice and stop at 5 BTDC, then look at rotor again.
It will fire and probably start if anywhere near. The fine timing later is to get it running good. Right now we just want to hear a few pops.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.


Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394936 Fri Jan 29 2021 09:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,784
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
The piston will come to TDC twice. Only one will be compression stroke. That’s why it is quite common for the inexperienced to get the engine 180* out of time. You want it on TDC during compression stroke only. Engines jumping time is quite common after a lot of miles. It usually happens when it’s running good and you shut it off. The rotating mass will cause the timing chain to skip a notch or two if it’s worn enough.


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
‘65 Chevy Biscayne 4dr 230 I-6 one owner (I’m #2) “Emily”
‘39 Dodge Businessmans Coupe “Clarence”



"I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
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Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394938 Fri Jan 29 2021 09:55 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,164
B
Sir Searchalot
Usually if it's the chain, but not always, the carb or the tail pipe will backfire or spit or pop. This whole timing procedure above will not necessarily catch that problem. There will be a TDC and compression, and a rotor position. But that rotor position will not be synched to the piston anymore.
Just continue with the plan. Those motors are pretty bullet proof mechanically. Double roller chain.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.


Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394940 Fri Jan 29 2021 10:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 49
J
Jimmy66 Offline OP
'Bolter
[img]https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...4157412-F921-47DF-9B38-345C3C445FBF.jpeg[/img]

Went and got remote starter button, pulled plug 1, stopped as soon as it blew my thumb off the hole. This is where it was, confirmed that rotor was pointing to my original #1 position, put wires back.

Still doesn’t start. But it does sound like it’s trying harder with wires back where they started. Video if you want.


Jimmy Deveney
‘66 GMC 3/4 ton pick up
4 speed manual
305E V6
Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394942 Fri Jan 29 2021 10:29 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,164
B
Sir Searchalot
Let's change the wording to "still does not fire". I don't want to get fooled by does not start. If there is no fire whatsoever, it is totally different than "won't start".

Been avoiding saying this BUT: I would not work on that motor until is is cleaned. IT IS WAY TOO DIRTY. The pointer is pretty far off from what I can't see. Maybe you can wipe off the timing disc at least.

Turn motor by hand twice around and stop at 5 deg BTDC. Show pointer pic and show pic or rotor.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.


Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394944 Fri Jan 29 2021 10:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 49
J
Jimmy66 Offline OP
'Bolter
It’s rust. Can I wire brush it, or steel wool? It definitely doesn’t ‘wipe off’.


Jimmy Deveney
‘66 GMC 3/4 ton pick up
4 speed manual
305E V6
Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394945 Fri Jan 29 2021 10:33 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,164
B
Sir Searchalot
YES but it's not rust. It's hard grime. Petrified dirt. You gotta use gas or carb cleaner or degreaser someday.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.


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