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Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394731 Thu Jan 28 2021 05:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 49
J
Jimmy66 Offline OP
'Bolter
It was cold last night and I got lazy. Put it on charger this morning. Voltage was good, but only had 74% of a full charge. Letting it get some juice.


Jimmy Deveney
‘66 GMC 3/4 ton pick up
4 speed manual
305E V6
Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394745 Thu Jan 28 2021 06:46 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,164
B
Sir Searchalot
Point of order: The R terminal on the starter only supplies 12V to coil during cranking (key at "Start" position), then when motor starts, and you let go of the key, the key returns to "ON" position. Then the resistance wire carries the voltage to coil (8-9V). You have said that when you tested the coil with ignition "ON" is was 11.94V. This says something is wrong. Unless you didn't test it correctly as I described. I'll give you the benefit of doubt.

The yellow wire is supposed to be from starter "R" to coil pos. The resistance wire is supposed to come from the ignition switch "ON" terminal. So now I want to know what the voltage is at coil positive with motor cranking. You may need a helper for that. Do that test ASAP.

The fact that there is 11.9/12V with ignition "ON" is OK now that you have Pertronix, but not OK for the points. I just want to make sure there is 12V with key at start/motor cranking. Motor will have weak spark if coil is only getting 8-9V while cranking and Pertronix only getting 8-9V during cranking............or maybe voltage is zero during crank. A low battery or a battery that breaks down will contribute to this or cause all this. I don't pay any attention to posters who say this or that is new. "NEW" has it's own dangers. Lots of bad parts now-a-days and inexperienced installers/owners who damage parts right away. It would be normal for a battery to be low after many tries of starting without recharge however.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.


Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394754 Thu Jan 28 2021 07:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 49
J
Jimmy66 Offline OP
'Bolter
I went out and did the testing you and Jerry recommended last night, before I read this. Charged battery to 13.6, made sure everything was tight, with yellow and resistor wire off post and with jumper going from battery to positive on coil, it still didn’t start. Video taped that.

Also took center wire from distributor and grounded it. And read voltage at battery while cranking, it never got below 10.9, and I video taped that as well.

Ending voltage on battery after a few cranks was 12.9

I will go out and measure voltage at positive while cranking in a bit. It’s cold, can’t stay out there too long.


Jimmy Deveney
‘66 GMC 3/4 ton pick up
4 speed manual
305E V6
Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394758 Thu Jan 28 2021 07:49 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,164
B
Sir Searchalot
May be we better wait for better weather. taking too long.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.


Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394761 Thu Jan 28 2021 08:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 49
J
Jimmy66 Offline OP
'Bolter
Oh I also did carb throat test and video taped that. It is definitely shooting gas.
Going out now to test coil. Had online meeting I had to attend.


Jimmy Deveney
‘66 GMC 3/4 ton pick up
4 speed manual
305E V6
Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394766 Thu Jan 28 2021 08:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 49
J
Jimmy66 Offline OP
'Bolter
It fluctuated around 10.7-11. I have video of meter while I’m cranking if you want me to send it.


Jimmy Deveney
‘66 GMC 3/4 ton pick up
4 speed manual
305E V6
Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394779 Thu Jan 28 2021 09:51 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,164
B
Sir Searchalot
Well I thought is would be 12V but I'm not sure, Maybe some voltage drop. So I guess you have gas, spark and compression. The only thing left is timing. It won't start with points or Pertronix, it could be plug wires screwed up on the dizzy, (wires on wrong plugs).
1. Double check firing order vs plug wire routing. Firing order 1-6-5-4-3-2 CW. Spark plug gap .035. RED FLAG>>>> You did take cap off dizzy and you did replace the wires.
2. Check timing 5 deg BTDC. Some of those motor work better up to 10 BTDC
3. Worst case is timing chain slip
4. I believe it's not bad gas from what all you did. But that is another thing common to points and Pertronix no start.
5. This can be a situation that when it died using plugs, it was the capacitor, bad points, gas clog, etc. Then when work was done, new parts added and switched to Pertronix, a new issue emerged at that time. I.E. blown Pertronix component, mistake in dizzy plug wires, etc. or in other words "something got fixed and then something else got broken". This is very hard to find. So using the strategy of what issue "would be common to both points and Pertronix", may not be the best approach. You are performing the basic troubleshooting tests. Eventually, you will discover the gremlin.
You need: Fuel, fire, compression (at the right time)


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.


Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394786 Thu Jan 28 2021 10:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,784
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
Let me first say, you have been very patient with bartamos and he has been very patient with you. Usually this would have gone off the rail quite awhile ago. That being said and not wishing to step on bartamos’ very comprehensive testing, do the following. Remove #1 spark plug. Place your thumb over the plug hole and have a helper bump the starter/engine around til your thumb gets pushed off the hole by the engine compression. Look at where the timing mark is. It should be pretty close but can be an inch or so one way or the other from the zero mark. Now remove the distributor cap and see where the rotor is pointing. It should be pointing very close to the #1 tower. If not, and you have never removed the distributor, rearrange the plug wires properly and try to start the engine. If it doesn’t start do the test again. It is entirely possible that the timing chain has jumped. Good luck


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
‘65 Chevy Biscayne 4dr 230 I-6 one owner (I’m #2) “Emily”
‘39 Dodge Businessmans Coupe “Clarence”



"I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
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Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394799 Thu Jan 28 2021 11:06 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,164
B
Sir Searchalot
Martin, Good point.

Jimmy: I see by the pictures that the dizzy has the wires in the right order, BUT as Martin says, not sure rotor is pointing at actual no. 1 TDC compression stroke position. So you may have the no.1 wire in the wrong hole. Chances are you need to move them all one tower CW. Leave the spark plug end alone.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.
Sometimes no nonsense makes sense, in a sense
You can't teach a new dog old tricks.


Re: Ignition problems- 305E V6
Jimmy66 #1394886 Fri Jan 29 2021 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 49
J
Jimmy66 Offline OP
'Bolter
Ok, thanks Martin, and Bartamos. I am up, its warming up, (30 degrees), and once I'm coffeed up and ready for action I will try moving them all over 1 tower clockwise. If that does not work, I will wait for a friend to come over and try the thumb over the 1 plug hole test. I can't wait to get this thing running and get the camper to the scrap yard.


Jimmy Deveney
‘66 GMC 3/4 ton pick up
4 speed manual
305E V6
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