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Re: Does the 216/235 sit flat in the frame?
Gord&Fran #1393538 Wed Jan 20 2021 08:04 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,183
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Originally Posted by Gord&Fran
I built a spacer for the steady bearing to make the driveshaft match the slope of the crankshaft. So it's like a simple extension of the crankshaft.
Gord, did you read Jerry's post above?
Originally Posted by Hotrod Lincoln
If a U joint does not have a slight offset the needle bearings will not rotate on the cross.
Jerry
That's true, although with a stock bushing type u-joint, I'm not sure it matters that much.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: Does the 216/235 sit flat in the frame?
Brian Wise #1393540 Wed Jan 20 2021 08:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 23,004
H
'Bolter
Here's what Spicer says about it:

https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/driveline/setup/index.html

Thanks, Grigg!

Unless the joint flexes a little, the lube doesn't circulate and the bearing runs dry from having the same point of contact all the time.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Does the 216/235 sit flat in the frame?
Brian Wise #1393542 Wed Jan 20 2021 08:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,311
G
Insomniac
My setup is like figure 10 on page 14 of the manual: https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/driveline/setup/DSIG-3311.pdf


Gord
----
1954 1/2 ton 235 4 speed
Re: Does the 216/235 sit flat in the frame?
Brian Wise #1393569 Thu Jan 21 2021 02:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 99
B
'Bolter
I find it interesting that the diagram in the Spicer shows the motor and trans sitting flat.

You guys with 1954 and later trucks seem to have an easier time of it. The later style bell housing with the angled rear motor mounts, and a one piece drive shaft, looks to me to be a better set up.


Brian

'51 Chevy 3100/3600 Project
Re: Does the 216/235 sit flat in the frame?
Brian Wise #1393582 Thu Jan 21 2021 04:49 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,183
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
From the Tech Tip:
Rule #1 -- Universal joint operating angles at each end of a driveshaft should always be at least 1 degree.

Figure 10 may show the angle of the shaft at the transmission output as zero, but it's not labeled as such. See Rule #1.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: Does the 216/235 sit flat in the frame?
Brian Wise #1393584 Thu Jan 21 2021 06:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 284
1
'Bolter
Perhaps I'm commenting on the obvious. If so please forgive me but driveshafts don't spin at a constant velocity unless they have CV joints at each end. With a cross-type u-joint the variation in angular velocity within a given revolution increases as the driveshaft angle increases. Because of this even with all angles cancelling to zero, a steep driveshaft angle will create a noticeable vibration. So, careful placement of the rear crossmember is paramount irrespective of the carb flange. You may have to set the engine off center to match the rear axle to get horizontal angles correct.

As Spicer's tech tip says, U-joint angles need to be >1 degree to spread grease but they must be equal on both ends within 1 degree for trucks, 1/2 degree for motorhomes or they will vibrate, according to the book. I suppose motorhome drivers have less tolerance for vibration. To get the angles correct on my truck with an auxiliary trans I had to shim the front motor mount with front-end shims and with various washers on either end of the auxiliary. Now when the truck is loaded, the driveshaft is 1 degree off straight, main box through the auxiliary and same between the auxiliary and the rear axle. It does not vibrate even at 3,000 + RPM. You may have to change the shims between the rear axle and springs rather than shim the front motor mount. I wanted to avoid shimming the axle because I wanted the auxiliary springs to hit the perches correctly. You might also want to shim the carrier bearing. I have no idea if my carb flanges are level nor do I care. It's all about the u-joint angles.


51 3800 PU, 55 235 (w/cam, headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971.
Re: Does the 216/235 sit flat in the frame?
Brian Wise #1393585 Thu Jan 21 2021 06:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 284
1
'Bolter
Brian, If you set up the angles per your graph paper drawing you'll be fine. I looks like it came out of the Spicer book.


51 3800 PU, 55 235 (w/cam, headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971.
Re: Does the 216/235 sit flat in the frame?
Brian Wise #1393671 Thu Jan 21 2021 09:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,311
G
Insomniac


Gord
----
1954 1/2 ton 235 4 speed
Re: Does the 216/235 sit flat in the frame?
Brian Wise #1394142 Mon Jan 25 2021 12:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 99
B
'Bolter
A quick update to my situation. First, the local wrecking yard with a truck I've been getting a few parts from allowed me to remove the crossmember that my truck is missing. I had to use a battery powered reciprocating saw and hand tools (no grinders allowed) but I was able to get the crossmember removed (the transmission was already gone which made things easier to access). So that takes all of the guess work out of how my motor and trans will sit in the frame. Second, I took a long look at the intake/exhaust manifold from the junk truck's 216. I showed it to my son and he agreed that there is no slope to the intake manifold (unlike the one on my cracked 250 which has an obvious slope). Then I saw what I have been missing all this time. The base where the carburetor mounts is machined at an angle! I never saw that on my motor because the Bakelite carb riser was in place (and the hole was stuffed full of paper towels to keep dirt/debris out). I'm not going crazy and everything is now right with the world! Thanks again to everyone for your input.


Brian

'51 Chevy 3100/3600 Project
Re: Does the 216/235 sit flat in the frame?
Brian Wise #1394143 Mon Jan 25 2021 12:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,087
P
AD Addict
Its amazing how getting the original parts makes life easy. I glad it worked out for you.


Phil

1952 Chevrolet 3100
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