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Re: 1941 COE Overdrive Transmission
StevePala #1386854 Wed Dec 02 2020 02:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,881
E
Shop Shark
The trouble with a Clark or any other like OD transmission is they got the OD location from third gear, so when one is wound out in second gear, direct is next which isn’t too big of a deal with a two speed rear, but with a single speed, and when hauling a load, one is usually stuck in second when climbing a hill, very frustrating.

If one never hauls a big load, and doesn’t drive in the mountains, it is OK.

Ed


'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires.
'47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle.
'54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed.
'55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
Re: 1941 COE Overdrive Transmission
StevePala #1386918 Thu Dec 03 2020 05:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 280
1
Shop Shark
The ratios on a Spicer/Brown-Lipe 6231A are: 1.24 low, 1.00 direct and 0.87 overdrive. I believe the 5831A is similar. The A suffex is important. The B and C are not progrssive and give like a 2:1 low or other less useful variation.

With a small engine you can work a big load up through the gears by keeping the engine on-the-boil. The RPM drop between gears is around 400 RPM. A 13% overdrive is not such a big deal to pull as a 30%. Aside from the ratio problems, a Clark 5-speed is difficult to get parts for these days I'm told at the ATHS antique truck show a few years back. Someone there suggested that I convert to a 10-speed roadranger but I've already got 12 speeds, 9 road gears and 3 compound ratios.


51 3800 PU, 55 235 (w/cam, headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971.
Re: 1941 COE Overdrive Transmission
StevePala #1386952 Thu Dec 03 2020 04:42 PM
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,832
J
Unrepentant VW Lover
Sorry to once again butt in here with stupid questions .. (AKA, the cold hearted Reality Fairy) but ...

As the guy who sits in the driver's seat of this web site and forum, I've heard a LOT of suppositions over the last 25 years from guys/experts who are chasing the same unobtainium -- faster speeds out of a big truck with the 216 (i.e., "I want to stay as original as possible but still get highway speeds).... i.e., "IF you do this ... If you try that ... If you do some other rube goldberg cobble up thing ... you can have your cake and eat it too."

What I have *yet* to hear is any definitive and documented feedback from someone (anyone) who has done something (anything) to make a big truck with a *216* (not a 283, not a 235 or any other higher torque/higher HP engine) be able to drive at modern speeds (and hold them, even on hills and accelerating with traffic) on modern roads and be satisfied with the results. Not ONE. In 25 years!

Heck, I tried this with a 1-ton and couldn't do it (tall tires, 4.10 gearing. Didn't try an aux OD but I can't see as how it would have made any difference). I gave up on the 216 and went to a 261 and life has been great ever since.

As many of you never fail to point out, I am no technical expert on any of this. Got it. You may feel free to move on to a new topic. However, I am not completely dense, either -- I see and read most of what crosses this web site over the years. And from what I read, I have come to conclude that making a bigger truck with a 216 enjoyable in modern traffic on modern roads at modern speeds is not possible within the bounds of our current understanding of Physics and Thermodynamics. It is a waste of time, money and effort to try. And I think we do a real disservice to the hobby to even speculate on ways to do it.

Bottom line -- If you want to make the 1-ton or larger truck enjoyable/driveable you have to lose the 216. Disagree?? Show me some proof.


John
"Paul! Peggy barada nikto. PEGGY BARADA NIKTO!!!!"


'49 Chevrolet 3804

Re: 1941 COE Overdrive Transmission
StevePala #1386983 Thu Dec 03 2020 10:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,998
J
Workshop Owner
Has anyone ever tried adding a turbo? grin

John


J Lucas





1941 Chevy 1/2-Ton
1942 Chevy 1.5-Ton SWB
1959 Chevy Apache 31 Fleetside
1959 Chevy Apache 32 Fleetside
1959 Chevy Viking 40

My Flicker Photos! [flickr.com]

Re: 1941 COE Overdrive Transmission
StevePala #1386996 Fri Dec 04 2020 12:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 318
C
Shop Shark
Shouldn't be in a hurry, enjoy the old time drive. If it was good when your truck was built it can be now! To me the more original the better!

Re: 1941 COE Overdrive Transmission
StevePala #1386998 Fri Dec 04 2020 12:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,698
C
Shop Shark
A guy name Ray Beasasie made speed equipment including turbochargers for Chevys 70 years ago. He built several pretty radical cars. He must have not sold many and I do not know of one that survived. However, just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cTcAnyX4juw7oN2y8

Re: 1941 COE Overdrive Transmission
crenwelge #1387011 Fri Dec 04 2020 03:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 6
4
New Guy
Originally Posted by crenwelge
A guy name Ray Beasasie made speed equipment including turbochargers for Chevys 70 years ago. He built several pretty radical cars. He must have not sold many and I do not know of one that survived. However, just because it can be done doesn't mean it should. [quote=crenwelge]A guy name Ray Beasasie made speed equipment including turbochargers for Chevys 70 years ago. He built several pretty radical cars. He must have not sold many and I do not know of one that survived. However, just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cTcAnyX4juw7oN2y8
That's wild, I don't agree though, I think someone should try it. Perhaps not me though a babbit bearing 235 probably isn't best for forced induction 😀

Last edited by 472man; Fri Dec 04 2020 03:29 AM. Reason: Spelling
Re: 1941 COE Overdrive Transmission
J Lucas #1387558 Tue Dec 08 2020 04:20 PM
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,832
J
Unrepentant VW Lover
Originally Posted by J Lucas
Has anyone ever tried adding a turbo? grin

John

Oh please ... stop ... you're killin' me. laalaa

You shouldn't say things like that, John -- You'll give Jerry evil ideas. He's already engaged in doing unspeakable things to a 216 as we speak ...


John
"Paul! Peggy barada nikto. PEGGY BARADA NIKTO!!!!"


'49 Chevrolet 3804

Re: 1941 COE Overdrive Transmission
StevePala #1387564 Tue Dec 08 2020 05:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 21,811
H
Boltergeist
"BWAHAHAHAHAHA!" The mad scientist sitting on my shoulder and whispering in my ear just got a big laugh out of that suggestion- - - - -Turbos are great for little engines with wannabe delusion of being big engines. Adding forced induction to a glorified tractor engine would be about as successful as finding a chicken with lips! Even using a Rootes-type blower on a 292 is only done by people who like their smoking material to come in a long-stemmed pipe in a predominately Asian neighborhood!
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: 1941 COE Overdrive Transmission
StevePala #1389083 Sun Dec 20 2020 12:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,881
E
Shop Shark
The problem with Clark or other’s OD trans. is they use the third gear position for the OD location, so one goes from second to direct with nothing between, very difficult, even with a two speed rear, especially with a load, so be careful in considering similar OD trans. Have to weigh advantages of OD vs. stuck in second ‘til top of hill.

Ed


'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires.
'47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle.
'54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed.
'55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
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