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Re: Oil weight inMissouri
buckaroo01 #1378171 Wed Sep 23 2020 01:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 926
Y
yar Offline
Shop Shark
"Warren Performance (just down the street) bottles most of the store brand oils sold in the US. This includes Walmart, Costco, TSC Traveler, All Fleet, Amazon, Peak, Mag 1 and many others."

John,

Doesn't Warren Distribution make Mag 1 motor oil? If that is so aren't all the oils you listed the same products in different packages?

"After 50+ years of messing around with cars, I have come to the conclusion that motor oil is motor oil..."

Frank,

Are you saying that they all have the same additive package and quality or only that they all fit the broad category of "oil"? What is the science behind the statement?

According to buckaroo01 he learned from a lubrication engineer that there are differences:

"I took the suggestion by Yar and called the Shell Oil Lubrication Engineer and he cleared up the question of which motor oil is best in older engines. He said that older engines need Zinc and he suggested to use Rotella T4 15W-40 diesel motor oil as it contains 150% more zinc than motor oil for gasoline engines."

Over the decades I've seen many automotive publications that say the same things that the lubrication engineer told buckaroo01 and provide the details of the differences.

Ray W


Ray
Re: Oil weight inMissouri
buckaroo01 #1378219 Wed Sep 23 2020 05:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,972
F
Shop Shark
My statement was too general, but applicable I think, to our old trucks from the 40s — 50s, especially when combined with my statement that followed, “The cheapest oil you can buy today is better than anything available in the 1950s.”

Last edited by Frank50; Wed Sep 23 2020 05:19 PM.

Professional Novice
Re: Oil weight inMissouri
buckaroo01 #1378222 Wed Sep 23 2020 05:35 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,814
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Warren Performance MAY tweak the additive package for the different brands they supply, and they would definitely be different based on whether they're Diesel CK-4 or Gasser SN API spec.
Quite a few of the big companies, Chevron, Mobil, etc. have info on their websites with the additive values for the various oils. For example, here's the Product Data sheet for DELO 400. [cglapps.chevron.com]


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: Oil weight inMissouri
buckaroo01 #1378233 Wed Sep 23 2020 07:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,835
J
Workshop Owner
Quote
Warren Performance MAY tweak the additive package for the different brands they supply, and they would definitely be different based on whether they're Diesel CK-4 or Gasser SN API spec.

That's correct. Warren has various additives for whichever product they are bottling. I believe there's quite a bit of monitoring and testing involved to assure the proper blends. An insider told me that Mag 1 and Walmart's SuperTech are the same exact recipe. I've also been told that they bottle for BP (British Petroleum) at one of their other plants. I would like to think that if BP were allowing them mix and bottle their products they must know their stuff.

John


J Lucas





1941 Chevy 1/2-Ton
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Re: Oil weight inMissouri
buckaroo01 #1378235 Wed Sep 23 2020 07:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 926
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yar Offline
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Frank and John,

Isn't one of the things that has affected motor oil formulations emissions requirements. For example I thought I read somewhere that diesels are now equipped with cats and the old oil formulations damaged the cats so a new diesel motor oil formulation was required. If that is so maybe the older oils are actually better for gas engines with flat tappet camshafts. That's an interesting question to me because I'm no expert on the subject, just an interested amateur.

Ray W


Ray
Re: Oil weight inMissouri
buckaroo01 #1378246 Wed Sep 23 2020 09:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 234
1
Shop Shark
In about 2005 I switched from 20/50 Valvoline to DELO 15/40 because I had a more or less unlimited supply from draining the residual after a delivery from the tankers I was driving. Eventually, I used the last of what I saved only to discover that Chevron had greatly reduced the metals in the additive package after diesels got trap oxidizers etc. So I began using an after-market additive at $15 a pint in addition to the DELO I got from COSTCO. I had been using DELO in my flat-tappet motorcycles too. So it's gotten expensive.

Motorcycle-specific oil from NAPA is about the same price as DELO with an additive. I'm pretty careful about oil for my Norton Commando as the tappets don't even rotate and I had two cams go flat on that engine. The last replacement was a work-hardened used one and I've had no trouble since. On my Mercedes diesel, the rockers ride directly on the cam so there's nothing to rotate and I've used the expensive additive package on that too. After 10-15 thousand miles the cam still looks good when I pull the valve cover to adjust the valves. So all appears to be well.

Lately I discovered that Valvoline Racing Oil has the metal additive package and is less expensive than, say Harley-branded oil and besides don't Harleys have roller tappets now too? So, I've been putting Valvoline Racing Oil in my 235 the past couple of changes.

Anyhow, it's good news that Rotella T4 15/40 has the zinc additive. Is it more expensive than DELO? I wonder if it would be OK in the Mercedes diesel.


51 3800 PU, 55 235 (w/cam, headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971.
Re: Oil weight inMissouri
buckaroo01 #1378248 Wed Sep 23 2020 09:17 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,814
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
I think the change in diesel oils was when the spec changed from CJ-4 to CK-4. It did reduce the ZDDP additive components by about half. Not sure the reasoning behind it but it wasn't for catalytic converters, as the light duty diesels had those since around 1999. It was probably due to the diesel particulate filters in the exhaust than need diesel exhaust fluid (urea) for operation.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: Oil weight inMissouri
buckaroo01 #1378327 Thu Sep 24 2020 02:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 428
G
Shop Shark
One brand I haven't seen mentioned in this thread was the Lucas Oil - "Hot Rod & Classic" branded oils. Supposedly made specifically for these older engines that need the higher level of Zinc and other additives... although much pricier at $35-40 per gallon.

Re: Oil weight inMissouri
buckaroo01 #1378364 Thu Sep 24 2020 10:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 926
Y
yar Offline
Shop Shark
I appreciate the information you guys are bringing forward. There is a lot to know on this subject.

These articles from Hot Rod are interesting reads on the subjects of modern oil's effect on engine and flat tappet camshaft component longevity:

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0803sr-modern-engine-oil/

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-0702-pitstop-zinc-oil-additive/

Ray W


Ray
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