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Engine timing 180 degrees out and it runs
#1377674 Sat Sep 19 2020 09:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 36
5
Wrench Fetcher
I have purchased a 1969 C10 and have started restoration. The latest problem I have found is the timing mark is 180 out. The truck starts, idles and accelerates pretty good so I am confused on how the timing mark can be so far off and still run. Will the truck run with timing 180 out? Can the pulley be mounted wrong. Any help on what do I need to do to fix this would be appreciated.
Pete


Chevy Pete
Re: Engine timing 180 degrees out and it runs
5253chevyman #1377680 Sat Sep 19 2020 10:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 21,010
H
Boltergeist
OK- - - -how about a few more details? For starters, which engine are you working on? A 69 C-10 can have at least three V8's and a couple of 6 cylinders as original equipment. Six or V8? Since all of those engines have timing marks on the front of the engine, the most obvious guess would be a slipped outer ring on the harmonic balancer. If the timing marks on a good-condition damper ring are 180 degrees away from the mark on the timing cover when the #1 cylinder fires, there's no way the engine can run. On either a Chevy six or a V8, regardless of displacement, it might be possible to make an engine run with the timing marks 20 or 30 degrees of crankshaft rotation out of place, advanced or retarded, but that's about the maximum "out of time" the engine will tolerate.

There is a precise way to determine if the timing marks and the pistons are in synch, but very few, if any people on the Stovebolt forum are willing to follow the steps necessary to get an accurate check. Drop me a PM if you want some details.
Jerry


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Re: Engine timing 180 degrees out and it runs
5253chevyman #1377683 Sat Sep 19 2020 11:03 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
General Purpose
Pete, you better rethink this. You better be more clear as to what you are telling us. What timing mark? How is this timing mark 180 out? Jerry is assuming you mean the balancer marks and pointer, and I would assume that also........... but I have learned that nothing can be assumed on an initial posters post.

NO, the balancer can not be put on wrong, it's keyed to the crank.

SO:
1. What motor?
2. What "timing marks"? Make sure you are not talking about home made marks or the distributor rotor or some other thing.
3. How are you interpreting 180 out?


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.


Re: Engine timing 180 degrees out and it runs
Hotrod Lincoln #1377686 Sat Sep 19 2020 11:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 36
5
Wrench Fetcher
It is a 230 or 250 6 cylinder still haven't narrowed it down to which one. My bore scope is not working so can't look at the top of the pistons. I was of the same opinion Jerry, I have had 8 cylinder engines sputter but not run when they were 180 out but don't have any experience with a 6 cylinder 180 out. The item with the timing mark does not look like a typical harmonic balancer It is a heavy duty two belt pulley with a grove cut in the edge of the pulley. Could I be mistaken on this mark as TDC I know how to find TDC on the Engine but haven't gone down that path yet.


Chevy Pete
Re: Engine timing 180 degrees out and it runs
5253chevyman #1377687 Sat Sep 19 2020 11:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 36
5
Wrench Fetcher
I am using a timing light and the slot on the pulley is 180 degrees out when number one fires. I don't see any other marks on the pulley.

Last edited by 5253chevyman; Sat Sep 19 2020 11:25 PM.

Chevy Pete
Re: Engine timing 180 degrees out and it runs
5253chevyman #1377692 Sat Sep 19 2020 11:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,025
G
Shop Shark
Funny stuff. I had a 318 in an old truck jump time. I pulled out the distributor and turned it 180 dropped it in and got it started. But what i think you have is that the distributor is not installed right, for what ever reason? And that the wire order on the cap was arranged to compensate for the wrongly inserted distributor. Probably easily fixed? At least i would think if you know how to set it up correctly..if not, ask.

Re: Engine timing 180 degrees out and it runs
5253chevyman #1377693 Sat Sep 19 2020 11:51 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
General Purpose
You would have a 250 if stock. The stock harmonic balancer does have a factory groove cut on the edge. That is to align with a saw tooth "pointer plate" attached to the timing cover. If the pointer plate it mounted correctly.
I think Glenn has it figured out. Balancer 180 out, dizzy 180 out and wired per firing order.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.


Re: Engine timing 180 degrees out and it runs
5253chevyman #1377696 Sun Sep 20 2020 12:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,010
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
Get your engine to TDC on compression stroke and remove the distributor cap. See where the rotor is pointing. Either wire from there or lift distributor and turn the rotor to line up where it should.šŸ› 


Martin
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Re: Engine timing 180 degrees out and it runs
5253chevyman #1377712 Sun Sep 20 2020 01:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 36
5
Wrench Fetcher
That will be my next step. I will do that and see where the balancer is at. I feel the balancer has spun and the key way is no longer where it should be. Who knows what has happened in the last 51 years.


Chevy Pete
Re: Engine timing 180 degrees out and it runs
5253chevyman #1377726 Sun Sep 20 2020 02:09 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
General Purpose
It can't slip with a keyway. It can't have slipped exactly 180 with no key. The Dizzy is screwed up. I don't know what putting the timing gear on wrong would do or if it could be done and compensated for. You will figure it out by removing dizzy and set it back in with no.1 at TDC on compression.


Watch out for careful drivers!!!
I'm away on an ego trip. Will be back on Feb 30.
I'm not an Auto Mechanic, but I play one on TV.
I charge $0.02 for every opinion and I take Paypal.
Plan B is always better than plan A, by definition.


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