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Somone put radials on my three piece wheels. How bad is that?
#1376460 Wed Sep 09 2020 03:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 17
Y
New Guy
I noticed that the front tires on my 52 GMC 350 are radials. Toyo Hyparadial 9.00R20. They are larger than the rears, and rub a bit on the leaf springs if I max out the steering. I read that radials put too much point loading on these old three piece rims. Is this a real problem? The tires are in really nice shape and they look good. I'd rather not have to replace them. I did some searching, but didn't come up with a real answer.

Thanks

Re: Somone put radials on my three piece wheels. How bad is that?
yeahoner #1376474 Wed Sep 09 2020 11:53 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 329
S
Shop Shark
Here is an article by SEMA about your question, it would seem that SEMA agrees with there being a problem.

https://www.sema.org/files/attachments/WTC-2011-05-Bias-vs-Radial-Tire-Wheel-Fitment.pdf

Also radials on one end will affect handling. On the front they increase understeer, with a heavy vehicle this can be a problem if a change of direction is needed in a hurry. The tires will lean over more with side load instead of turning the truck. Increased steering wheel angle will be needed to make the same turn at the same speed compared to bias ply tires. The only way to know how much is to drive the truck under difficult conditions, which is by definition dangerous. Do be careful.


Mac :{)

1962 K10 short step side, much modified for rally
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Re: Somone put radials on my three piece wheels. How bad is that?
yeahoner #1376796 Sat Sep 12 2020 02:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 21,017
H
Boltergeist
That is an interesting article, but it does not deal specifically with multi-piece rims. Generally, the bead area of a sectional rim is heavier than a single piece one, which is stamped or rolled from a flat sheet of metal. also, a tire on a sectional rim must run a tube and a flap to keep the tube from being damaged by contact with the wheel. All these differences will create stress vectors and loads that differ vastly from those encountered when a tire is mounted "tubeless".

The point about radials on only one axle having an effect on handling is a very good one. The flex of the sidewall on a radial tire will create a lag in the steering input by the driver that can adversely affect handling compared to the steering input with a bias ply tire. When radials and bias tires are combined on opposite ends of a vehicle, the steering can get pretty "interesting" at times, particularly in an unexpected turn at speed, or a "crash avoidance" maneuver.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Somone put radials on my three piece wheels. How bad is that?
Hotrod Lincoln #1376800 Sat Sep 12 2020 03:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 17
Y
New Guy
so i understand that the radials will have a slower response up front. how would the handling differ from radials all around? would the slower response lead to over correcting? my understanding up until now had been that radials “track better” and bias ply wanders more in response to road textures. I can understand radials being less than ideal, but i’m trying to understand if having them only on the front is worse than all around. up until now i thought switching to radials was desirable for driveability.

I have only driven the truck the 15 miles it took to get it home so far. I’ll be learning it’s driving characteristics as I go. is this something that would bother me more if i was used to bias ply and having to adjust? I feel like it’s somewhat likely I’ll just learn how this truck steers and drive within those parameters. Not exactly going fast anyways.

I know I’d rather not spend $700 for a pair of new front tires if I don’t have to, but I don’t want that to make my safety decisions for me. My wife will be driving this truck too, she’s a solid equipment operator, i trust her skills, but i don’t want to put her at risk unnecessarily.

Re: Somone put radials on my three piece wheels. How bad is that?
yeahoner #1376814 Sat Sep 12 2020 04:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 745
B
Shop Shark
The last line of HRLs post is enough. Things can seem to be working out just fine until it doesn't.


BC
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Re: Somone put radials on my three piece wheels. How bad is that?
yeahoner #1376818 Sat Sep 12 2020 05:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,830
J
Workshop Owner
Seems like I read something in the past about tubes not recommended for radial tires. One more thing to check into.

John


J Lucas





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Re: Somone put radials on my three piece wheels. How bad is that?
yeahoner #1376822 Sat Sep 12 2020 07:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 21,017
H
Boltergeist
Radial tires need special heavy duty tubes to accommodate the side to side squirm of the sidewalls. Regular bias ply tubes will scuff against the sidewalls of a radial tire and potentially develop air leaks.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Somone put radials on my three piece wheels. How bad is that?
Hotrod Lincoln #1376835 Sat Sep 12 2020 09:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 17
Y
New Guy
another thing to factor in. i’m thinking of giving toyo customer service a call monday and see what they have to say.

Re: Somone put radials on my three piece wheels. How bad is that?
yeahoner #1376925 Sun Sep 13 2020 08:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,675
C
Shop Shark
I have operated a fleet of trucks for 56 years. When radial tires became of age about 50 years ago, trade magazines published all kinds of horror stories and for many years a lot of owner operators put bias on their steer even if they had radials on the drive. Radials do give the steering a little different feel than bias tires with manual steering and it takes getting used to if you grew up with bias like I did. A lot of this will go away by giving the radials a little less toe in than bias. 20" tube required tires require a multi piece wheel. The 3 piece wheel was the safest wheel that GMC used for tube required tires. You are very fortunate to have the 3 piece. Many of the 2 tons had the Firestone RH5°. Radial tires do require a tube specially designed for radial tires. There are no modern wheels specifically designed for radial tires because they are a lot of bias 20" bias tires on container trailers. I think calling Toyo will be a waste of time. I don't think any tire manufacturer except for classic tire manufacturers would assume the liability recommending you to mount a commercial truck tire on a 70 year old wheels. Age of the tire plays a more important role with radials than bias than the wheels. Age affects radials a lot more than it does bias. It is important to keep proper air pressure, have radial tubes and have only radials or only bias on a particular axle. I wouldn't worry about the wheel.

Re: Somone put radials on my three piece wheels. How bad is that?
crenwelge #1376933 Sun Sep 13 2020 09:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 17
Y
New Guy
this is interesting to me. probably partly because it sounds like maybe i don’t need to spend a bunch of money on new front tires just yet. the tires appear to be in nearly new condition. no cracking of any kind, and barely worn tread. i’ll try to look up the date code and figure out how old they are.

if the primary difference is a “slightly different steering feel” from bias ply than i think i’ll be fine.

the only bias ply truck i’ve driven is an old f350 flatbed that’s so rough it’s nickname is the “sloppy jelopy”. there’s no way this will steer worse than that thing even with radials. i’ll probably swap these for bias ply when these start showing some age and then need to relearn that steering feel.


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