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Re: carburetor spacer for a few horses - yes or no?
Hotrod Lincoln #1375817 Thu Sep 03 2020 11:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 173
S
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by Hotrod Lincoln
Edelbrocks are poor quality clones of a Carter AFB. They make good paperweights if you use them right out of the box before they get installed on an engine. Once one's been run, the gasoline smell in a small office will give you headaches.
Jerry

I must have stumbled across an outlier Edelbrock then! This would be a great learning opportunity for those of us who don't have a broad base of experience. Please start a thread, and share the pros/cons of Carter versus Edelbrock.

-Kevin


This is what happens when you live with a house-full of women, the wife and daughters name all the cars:
1960 Impala - "Frankie" (Frank Sinatra)
1961 Apache - " 'Mater Jr." (wrecker)
1972 SuperBeetle Convertible - "Juliet"
1976 SuperBeetle Convertible - "Olaf"
1988 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce - "Romeo"
Re: carburetor spacer for a few horses - yes or no?
pan3lman #1375821 Thu Sep 03 2020 11:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 21,052
H
Boltergeist
A quick search of the forum archives will turn up several hours' worth of reading on the differences in AFB's and Edelbrocks. There's no sense beating that dead horse any more- - - -it's about as flat as a postage stamp already. Listen to Carb King, and pay close attention - - - - -he has far more knowledge on the subject than I do, and since he owns a lot of the original Carter manufacturing equipment and is in the business of making exact duplicates of their repair kits, I take his word as gospel. If anything, he has a lower opinion of Edelbrocks than I do.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: carburetor spacer for a few horses - yes or no?
pan3lman #1375898 Fri Sep 04 2020 12:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,067
C
Carburetion specialist
Jerry - I have given up on this subject, and you are right, that poor horse is dead, dead, dead.

Remember the movie "Field of Dreams"....................................."If you build it, they will come".

Well, paraphrase that with "if its cheap enough, someone will buy it".

The e-clones are, and forever will be, banned from our shop......no sales, no parts, no tech, nothing!

If someone is happy with theirs, great.

Jon.


Good carburetion is fuelish hot air
The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify
If you truly believe "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!
[image]http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Avatar.jpg[/image]
Re: carburetor spacer for a few horses - yes or no?
pan3lman #1375929 Fri Sep 04 2020 04:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 926
Y
yar Offline
Shop Shark
Good morning pan31man,

As Jon points out not everyone is a fan of the Edelbrock carburetors:

"The e-clones are, and forever will be, banned from our shop......no sales, no parts, no tech, nothing!"

But as Jon has mentioned in the past the Edelbrock AFB clones do work out well for some of us. I have one on the sbc 350 engine in my street rod, a '32 Ford roadster. I got it as a #1405 and added an electric choke. Being familiar with jetting modifications to optimize performance and using a long, steep hill near my home as a dynomometer I experimented with primary and secondary jets and metering rods and found a combination that works well. This experimenting with the tune up also included trying various spark plug heat ranges and distributor initial timing, vacuum advance curves and centrifugal advance curves. Since it was a new engine build all of those variables had to be dealt with. But in the end my experience has been like Kevin's:

"The 1400-series Performer carb should be good for even a mildly-build 350 engine without the need of a spacer. I have a crate 350 motor in my '60 Impala, bored .030 over, mild performance cam, and Edelbrock Performer series dual-plane intake manifold. When I purchased the Impala, it had a 1400 with manual choke (1405) which I converted to electric choke (1406) to improve driveability for my wife and daughters."

There is hope for you based on our experiences. The real troublesome issue I had was with vapor lock that was severe on hot days in slow moving traffic. In an attempt to reduce heat input into the engine in general and fuel system in particular I added a fan shroud to the electric puller fan setup, put a thermal spacer between the carburetor and the Edelbrock Performer intake manifold, changed the fuel filter to one with a return port, put heat reflective sleeves over all the fuel lines, made a heat shield to reduce header heat input into the fuel pump and made ducting that feeds cool air to the air filter and carburetor. The cumulative effect of all that was to eliminate the vapor lock issue no matter how hot the day and how gridlocked the traffic.

You'll notice in the photos that this engine is not spotlessly clean. That's because the roadster is driven regularly and has accumulated nearly 25,000 miles during the last 17 years and at least this one Edelbrock AFB clone hasn't been touched since the original jetting was figured out.

Ray W

Attached Files
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Ray
Re: carburetor spacer for a few horses - yes or no?
pan3lman #1375939 Fri Sep 04 2020 06:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 21,052
H
Boltergeist
A plate of greasy scrambled eggs from the local Waffle House will keep me from starving to death, too, but I'd prefer to eat a good Denver omelet. The only thing they have in common is the eggs!
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: carburetor spacer for a few horses - yes or no?
pan3lman #1375941 Fri Sep 04 2020 06:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,067
C
Carburetion specialist
The second priority for any business should be satisfied customers (or prospective customers). The first priority is surviving wink

Thus, for those of you that are satisfied with the clones, I am happy for you.

Jon.


Good carburetion is fuelish hot air
The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify
If you truly believe "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!
[image]http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Avatar.jpg[/image]
Re: carburetor spacer for a few horses - yes or no?
pan3lman #1375957 Fri Sep 04 2020 09:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 926
Y
yar Offline
Shop Shark
"Thus, for those of you that are satisfied with the clones, I am happy for you."

Hi Jon. Happy Friday.

The only Edelbrock AFB clone I have any experience with is the one on my roadster engine. Until reading your many posts I had no idea that they can often be troublesome. I just jetted it for my newly built engine and ran it. I guess I got lucky because this one is on an engine that delivers good reliability, power and fuel economy. The only time I've touched the carburetor since jetting it so long ago was after the vapor lock problem was finally solved and I was able to reduce the idle speed because it no longer had a reduced idle speed and threatened to stall when vapor lock was about to occur. Now it has a steady idle speed under all conditions.

In the past you've explained that the AFB and Edelbrock clones use noticeably different metering rods. What other differences are there that would account for the performance differences? This subject is really interesting to me and apparently also to Kevin who states above "Please start a thread, and share the pros/cons of Carter versus Edelbrock." I looked at a lot of Amazon reviews of the 1406 and didn't find the answer there (84% 5-star and 9% 4-star ratings):

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B000182DIS

To me learning new things is fun. In fact even at age 75 I believe that when we stop learning we stop living.

Thanks Jon!

Ray W


Ray
Re: carburetor spacer for a few horses - yes or no?
pan3lman #1375996 Sat Sep 05 2020 05:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 173
S
Shop Shark
I've been really lucky with my Edelbrock then; I haven't had any vapor lock problems either.

When I bought my Impala, it had been sitting for a few years. One of the first things I did was to get a kit and rebuild the carb. I didn't have to change the calibration at all. It's been running great ever since. At this point, the only reason I'd ditch the Edelbrock would be to put an EFI system on it. I'll see how the EFI on my stovebolt goes first!

-Kevin


This is what happens when you live with a house-full of women, the wife and daughters name all the cars:
1960 Impala - "Frankie" (Frank Sinatra)
1961 Apache - " 'Mater Jr." (wrecker)
1972 SuperBeetle Convertible - "Juliet"
1976 SuperBeetle Convertible - "Olaf"
1988 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce - "Romeo"
Re: carburetor spacer for a few horses - yes or no?
Shakey61 #1376010 Sat Sep 05 2020 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 160
P
Shop Shark
Not to poke the bear, but I had a clone carb on my 327 on my Chevelle that I bought new from Pep Girls, and it ran flawlessly from day 1 until I sold the car 10 yrs later. I also only drove the car to cruise nights and an occasional run at Cecil County Dragway smile

The 350 in my truck has the used 1400 on it that I mentioned before in this thread, and so far it's been OK. I did notice, though, that someone spun the electric choke cap so far counter clockwise that the chokeplate was always open, and the wire tabs were in the 12:00 position! No clue why, so I've adjusted it back to normal.


1957 Chevy Panel Truck, powered by SBC 350 from 1977 Camaro
Author, Bring CHANGE Into Your Life (a truly easy investment tool)
https://www.amazon.com/Bring-CHANGE-Into-truly-investment/dp/1077276869
Re: carburetor spacer for a few horses - yes or no?
pan3lman #1376022 Sat Sep 05 2020 04:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 926
Y
yar Offline
Shop Shark
It's hard to imagine that a big company (Edelbrock) could buy the right to copy somebody else's highly evolved product (Carter's AFB), have a successful carburetor manufacturer (Weber) make the actual copies and end up with a lemon. Being a scientist (geologist) with a curious mind I wonder about the details of how that happened. I've asked on the Chevytalk forum what experiences people have had with the Edelbrock carburetors and so far there are only a couple of responses:

https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/362448/post/new/#NEW

Jon really is the carburetor guru and I'm looking forward to more information on this topic.

The negative reviews on Amazon were for things like not including related hardware for installation on specific applications, like wires for the electric choke and a hold down stud for the air cleaner. Those negative comments surprised me because it's not possible to anticipate the details of every installation.

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B000182DIS

When I built my roadster engine one of the Edelbrock heads I bought from Summit was full of aluminum chips from the machining process. I thought I was doing a good thing calling Edelbrock to report that quality control issue to them. The guy who took my call was outright nasty so I ended the call. Then I contacted Summit and they had a replacement head on my door step the next day along with a UPS call tag for returning the defective head without any unpleasantness. So maybe the problem has been with Edelbrock personnel, not their products. So far I don't know.

Ray W


Ray
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