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Re: 261 Engine Price
BC59 #1365080 Tue Jun 16 2020 04:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 103
9
Shop Shark
Cool, yea did the same bought a 55 GMC @auction 230.oo and got real nice 261 with it sold truck for 500!


Karl j Townsend
Re: 261 Engine Price
Stove #1365081 Tue Jun 16 2020 04:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 103
9
Shop Shark
Cool, yea did the same bought a 55 GMC @auction 230.oo and got real nice 261 with it sold truck for 500!


Karl j Townsend
Re: 261 Engine Price
Stove #1365100 Tue Jun 16 2020 12:00 PM
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,758
J
Unrepentant VW Lover
Once again, we find out there are no absolutes ...

Did we ever, on Stovebolt.com, hear a reason/explanation of the captain's bars??? Because now we have two 261's with the same casting code (BowTieTim's) and mine. Both with the 9733950 code, yet one with captain's bars (Tim's) and one without (mine). Okay, the captain's bars obviously mean something ... What? Sorry if we've talked about this before ...

Tim, What is your engine's date code? Mine is B 6-9 (as shown), meaning it was cast in February of 1959 -- Presumably as a "crate Motor" or replacement engine for the '54 and '55 1st Series trucks (it has no serial number stamped on the boss behind the dizzy, which is typical for a crate motor, yes?).

The things you learn around here .... wink

"42"

[elvis]

Attached Files
20160321_200619.jpg (121.69 KB, 200 downloads)
Last edited by John Milliman; Tue Jun 16 2020 12:14 PM. Reason: Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything

John
"Paul! Peggy barada nikto. PEGGY BARADA NIKTO!!!!"


'49 Chevrolet 3804

Re: 261 Engine Price
Stove #1365113 Tue Jun 16 2020 01:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,663
S
Shop Shark
John, was one engine casted in Tonawanda and the other in Flint?
Bow ties engine looks like a Tonawanda engine, was yours a Flint replacement engine?

Last edited by sstock; Tue Jun 16 2020 01:20 PM.

1953 Chevrolet 3100
261 cu inch, sm420, 3.55 rear, torque tube still,omaha orange, still 6 volt, RPO green glass, side carrier spare, all done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bli...n05i04t1aokgm4p04jiwgffwhyyih5xbk0h00410
1964 GMC 1000
305 Big Block V6, sm420, the next cab off restoration
Re: 261 Engine Price
Stove #1365123 Tue Jun 16 2020 04:02 PM
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,758
J
Unrepentant VW Lover
Hmmmm -- excellent question! Maybe. How do we tell T from F?

On the 261's, anyway, there appear to be two different locations for the casting number -- to the front of the motor of the distributor or just below and to the front of the fuel pump. Does this correlate to "later" and "earlier" 261's, by plant location (Tonnawanda or Flint), or just by the whim of the mold makers when they were setting up each mold? See my two working exemplars below. Do they reflect reality?

And while we're at it, here's a later 261 (with Captain's Bars) -- what is the clock face looking mark in the date code and what is it telling us?

Can you tell I'm working on a casting code Tech Tip?? smile

Attached Files
datecode.jpeg (521.25 KB, 182 downloads)
casting-code.jpg (45.41 KB, 183 downloads)
casting-code-locations-early-261.jpg (128.66 KB, 174 downloads)
casting-code-locations-later-261.jpg (101.49 KB, 173 downloads)

John
"Paul! Peggy barada nikto. PEGGY BARADA NIKTO!!!!"


'49 Chevrolet 3804

Re: 261 Engine Price
John Milliman #1365134 Tue Jun 16 2020 05:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,787
M
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by John Milliman
Hmmmm -- excellent question! Maybe. How do we tell T from F?

I believe there will be a T or F cast in the block to ID the engine foundry...maybe some of the members with open blocks can look them over...it may be on the inside by the crank.

Originally Posted by John Milliman
And while we're at it, here's a later 261 (with Captain's Bars) -- what is the clock face looking mark in the date code and what is it telling us?

The cast clock indicates the 10 hour shift, 10 dots in a circle with the dot outside the circle and a pointer which indicating the time of day and shift (I forget which is which). It was another way to help isolate problems in the casting process.

Mike B smile

Re: 261 Engine Price
Stove #1365157 Tue Jun 16 2020 07:55 PM
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,758
J
Unrepentant VW Lover
Mike B -- In Bowtietim's post above, he has a picture of inside his black with a stylized "T" under cylinders 5&6 ... Tonawanda, then? That was sstock's clue?

So I went through the pictures of our 261 rebuild weekend and here's the best shot I could find showing the inside of my block. It appears mine is a Tonawanda block, too. Oh well, so much for that theory ...

So we have two Tonawanda 3733950 blocks, one with Captain bars, the other without. The one without bars (mine) was cast Feb 6, 1959. It could be interesting to know Tim's date code. On my block, there is a raised circle where the bars would be.

Attached Files
tonawanda.jpg (73.43 KB, 136 downloads)

John
"Paul! Peggy barada nikto. PEGGY BARADA NIKTO!!!!"


'49 Chevrolet 3804

Re: 261 Engine Price
Stove #1365168 Tue Jun 16 2020 09:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,599
B
Shop Shark
My date code is CON4 L14 6
The last four digits of my serial number stamped by the distributor pad is F54N
F- Flint
54- model year
N- 6000 series truck Heavy Duty Engine
I'm not sure what the T stands for inside the block (truck) ??

Attached Files
Screenshot_20200616-155419_Chrome.jpg (95.82 KB, 135 downloads)
Screenshot_20200614-222431_Gallery.jpg (104.9 KB, 111 downloads)
Last edited by bowtietim; Wed Jun 17 2020 01:52 AM.

"A house is built with boards and beams,a home is built with love and dreams"

Look deep before you leep !!!

"Everything is Everything"

"If I say a mouse can pull a house,Hitch him up"

My 1951 3100 Chevrolet
My 1951 Chevrolet Suburban Carryall

Re: 261 Engine Price
Stove #1365211 Wed Jun 17 2020 02:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,787
M
Shop Shark
Now we need to see if anyone has an "F" in the same area...

I firmly believe nothing was done by chance, there's a reason you have a circle and not bars...could it be because your block was destine to be made for the resale/replacement market and the internals were more generic or different than one destine to go in a new truck? This may be one of those questions that never get answered because we collectors/historians never had a link to the foundry paper trail...

Mike B smile

Re: 261 Engine Price
Stove #1365287 Wed Jun 17 2020 04:43 PM
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,758
J
Unrepentant VW Lover
Tim -- Apparently, per the posts above, the "T" means the block was cast at Tonawanda, NY. A Flint, MI block would have an "F"

Mike -- Concur -- could be that we are barking at ants, here ... Another data point is that my truck's main journals were cut for the newer style bearings -- Why this matters. Not sure if that has anything to do with the present discussion.

Also possibly important is that so far, *my* 261 is the only one we've seen (in this discussion) without the bars. It might be interesting and informative if someone else could chime in who has a bar-less 261. Mine can't be the only one ... If it is, I probably owe 48bigtrucks more money ... eek eeeek

I think, if nothing else, we *can* say that not all 261's have Captain's bars and thus, they should not be used as the sole identifier. Absence of Captain's Bars may *indicate* that it isn't a 261, but isn't conclusive (as my engine proves)-- the casting code is still the only way to know for sure.

Sorry if I took this conversation down a rabbit hole. I needed a distraction.


John
"Paul! Peggy barada nikto. PEGGY BARADA NIKTO!!!!"


'49 Chevrolet 3804

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