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Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
Kip #1364878 Sun Jun 14 2020 04:27 PM
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,603
J
Unrepentant VW Lover
We actually found a Toroflow diesel during one of our ODSS Junkyard Tours (At Frankie's). None of us knew much of anything about them, but we got excited when we saw that it was a GM diesel .... and then after 30 minutes of standing there while Prof. Grigg (III) educated us, we all understood why it was there in the junkyard. But we amazed that it was *still* in the junkyard and had not been converted to back into a steel ingot ... A lot of iron to move around, but it could have been had for scrap price and would have completed anyone's engine collection -- it could sit next to the gas V-12 engine in the "What were they thinking?" department.

Jerry ... What was so bad about the Corvair? Other than it was an over-baked copy of a very fine German car?? I'm still holding out for a Hebmüller or a Schwimmwagen smile And when I find one ... You all can bid me auf Wiedersehen. The funny thing is, I'll probably find one long before Ron ever pulls the trigger on a Plymouth ...

nanner

Ja


John
"There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes..."


'49 Chevrolet 3804

Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
Kip #1364896 Sun Jun 14 2020 07:40 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,586
K
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
The Corvair, with it's independent rear suspension was the impetus for the "Unsafe at Any Speed" book by Ralph Nader. In a too high speed corner, the outboard rear wheel tended to tuck under, causing a rollover.

I don't know who designed the Army's M151 Jeep, but it had the same issues. To get a licence endorsement to drive one, you had to sit thru a class where they drummed into your head that you couldn't take ANY corner at more than 25 MPH.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
Kip #1364926 Mon Jun 15 2020 01:17 AM
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,603
J
Unrepentant VW Lover
Hmmmm ... Not according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). In a July, 1972 report of its two-year investigation of the 1960-1963 Corvair, it found that "The handling and stability performance of the 1960-1963 Corvair does not result in an abnormal potential for loss of control or rollover and it is at least as good as the performance of some contemporary vehicles, both foreign and domestic."

Read the original report here [corvair.org].

All Ralph Nader proved was that given enough lateral acceleration beyond the moment arm, you can make any car roll.


John
"There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes..."


'49 Chevrolet 3804

Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
Kip #1364928 Mon Jun 15 2020 01:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,283
ace skiver
Thanks for posting that information, John

I was reluctant to post that link and others.

If the tire PSIs were correct, the "problem" was not significant.
The front and rear tire PSIs were significantly different.

"The Corvair relied on an unusually high front to rear pressure differential (15psi front, 26psi rear, when cold; 18 psi and 30psi hot), and if one inflated the tires equally, as was standard practice for all other cars at the time, the result was a dangerous oversteer"


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com [1954advance-design.com]
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban [stovebolt.com] - part of the family for 49 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic [1954advance-design.com] - part of the family for 15 years
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engines are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler. [chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com]
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
Kip #1364929 Mon Jun 15 2020 01:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,596
E
Shop Shark
If one knows how to drive, no problems. I had a '64 wagon, liked it.

Ed


'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires.
'47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle.
'54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed.
'55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
Kip #1364931 Mon Jun 15 2020 01:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,283
ace skiver


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com [1954advance-design.com]
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban [stovebolt.com] - part of the family for 49 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic [1954advance-design.com] - part of the family for 15 years
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engines are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler. [chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com]
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
Kip #1364935 Mon Jun 15 2020 02:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,596
E
Shop Shark
Sta. Wagon, not a van.

Ed


'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires.
'47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle.
'54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed.
'55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
Kip #1364947 Mon Jun 15 2020 04:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20,804
H
Boltergeist
From the viewpoint of a mechanic, not necessarily the driving public, a Corvair was the spawn of Satan! They were notorious for developing hard to fix oil leaks- - - -prone to overheating when run for long distances at highway speed, and the only thing worse than keeping the dual carbs synchronized was attempting to get four carbs on the Spyder version playing nice with each other. Then there was the incredibly hard-shifting 2-speed automatic transmission, or the 4-speed manual model with a shifter that felt like a piece of limp spaghetti. As was mentioned above, just a few pounds of wrong tire pressure turned the things into a death trap. A cross leaf spring called a "camber compensator" usually kept the things from getting up on their tiptoes in a hard turn. Following an non-compensated Corvair into a high speed turn or a slalom was at least as frightening to the guy in the back as it was to the driver. One of the guys in the Okinawa Sports Car Club insisted on campaigning one in the autocrosses we ran, and it was entertaining to watch his elbows flailing as he muscled the thing around some of the traffic cone courses we laid out.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
Hookalatch #1364962 Mon Jun 15 2020 11:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,082
Master Gabster
Originally Posted by Hookalatch
A little off topic but Corvette started using torque tubes from 1997 to at least 2019. Not sure if the 2020 model still uses them with the relocated engine.
I was wondering if anyone was going to mention that. When touring the Corvette plant a few years ago I was surprised to see the cars with torque tubes. Not being a Corvette fan I had no clue.


Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet.
The three main causes of blindness: Cataracts, Politics, Religion.
Name your dog Naked so you can walk Naked in the park.
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
Kip #1364967 Mon Jun 15 2020 12:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 776
P
Jack of all Trades, Master of None
My first car that I got on the road was a ‘62 Corvair coupe. Twin carb 6 cylinder 80 HP pancake engine that my best friends father bought for me for $85 in exchange for grafting a ‘65 VW convertibles front sheet metal (unibody) on and painting it so he could flip it. One carb float valve stuck in the closed position and at idle it sounded perfect but as soon as you pressed on the gas it wouldn’t go anywhere. That baffled me for awhile because it wasn’t shaking and ran as smooth as silk (it was only running on one bank of three cylinders). I eventually figured it out when I put my hand over one carb and it didn’t make any difference in how it sounded. It would smoke out the interior when you ran the heat. There were o-rings that sealed tubes that the push rods would run thru. They would dry out, leak on the finned heat/cooling fins (for those that don’t know, it was an air cooled engine). The whole rear pan was rusted out and it was only an 8 year old car. That would be the equivalent of a 2012 car today. I think that they have advanced a bit on the engineering of cars today.

I did a cob job on the rust, painted it light blue with black racing stripes and equipped it with some Thrush mufflers. It was loud in both the paint and sound but it didn’t go.

Now, in defense of the Corvair, it was a fun car to drive. Up until the point that the rear axle would tuck under (I experienced that fright a few times in corners that I took way too fast), it handled like a dream. It would out corner most cars on the road at that time. The turbo charged 150 HP Spider must have been a blast to drive.

Unfortunately, the front shock mount broke due to rust. I didn’t want to fix it so I sold it at a loss. As to an education? PRICELESS!

Last edited by Phak1; Mon Jun 15 2020 12:46 PM.

Phil

1952 Chevrolet 3100
Project Journals
‘59 235 & hydraulic lifters
“Three on the Tree” & 4:11 torque tube
12v w/ Alternator
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