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1950 3100 parking brake
#1344029 Tue Jan 28 2020 06:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
I'm giving it another try. Looking for any help, thoughts, insights into fixing my parking brake.
Background: I have adjusted the rear brake cylinders so there is just a hint of drag. I have installed a new pb cable. The concentric bolt holding the pb lever is properly adjusted. Slotted rod attached to the front shoe is in place.
Problem: when the brake cable is fully engaged (ie the pb lever is almost touching the backing plate near the axle and can not move forward any further) the slotted rod which is connected to the pb lever does not engage the leading brake shoe. The lever does not travel the full length of the slot in the rod.
Observations: slotted rod needs to be longer or slot needs to be shorter or missing a piece or ?????

Help. As always thanks in advance.
Jon

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1344092 Wed Jan 29 2020 02:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,402
J
Shop Shark
Jon if you have any pictures (images) that will be helpful. I've repaired a few of these (including reconstructing one where the parts were missing), but I can't tell what yours might be doing (or not doing) without some help.


Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1344096 Wed Jan 29 2020 02:39 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,373
K
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
The parking brake lever attaches to the secondary shoe. You mentioned a concentric bolt, but I'm not sure what that means.
Here's a picture that may help. Compliments of Brad Allen


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jon G #1344106 Wed Jan 29 2020 04:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
klhansen, I will try and post some pics next week. I'm out of town.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1344107 Wed Jan 29 2020 04:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Oops my last reply was ment for JonG.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345514 Sat Feb 08 2020 12:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Here are the pics of my problem.
First pic is of BP lever fully engaged (ie touching the backing plate and can not go any further)
Second pic (although hard to see) is the slotted rod with the BP fully engaged. The BP lever does not reach the back of the slot and therefore does not push on the brake shoe to push on the drum. What am I missing?

Attached Files
Inkedbrake lever_LI.jpg (48.39 KB, 353 downloads)
Inkedslotted rod_LI.jpg (50.63 KB, 354 downloads)
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345518 Sat Feb 08 2020 12:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,228
5
Master Gabster
Did you adjust the brakes before you started working on attaching the parking brake cables?
Though this may seem like a dumb question by some, it is very important.

Last edited by 52Carl; Sat Feb 08 2020 12:40 AM.
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345566 Sat Feb 08 2020 03:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
I did adjust the wheel cylinders so there was just a hint of drag on the drums by the shoes.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345645 Sat Feb 08 2020 10:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,228
5
Master Gabster
My guess is that since you are not able to cause the shoes to contact the drums by pulling on the disconnected cables, you may not have the mechanical parts between the drums and the backing plates installed correctly.

Last edited by 52Carl; Sat Mar 14 2020 05:41 PM.
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345655 Sun Feb 09 2020 12:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Thanks for you help. I'll look for a pic of properly installed mechanism and reassemble the parts accordingly.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345676 Sun Feb 09 2020 02:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,014
ace skiver
Most likely the illustrations in the Shop Manual are not clear/detailed enough to answer your questions?

Maybe Brad has a helpful film-strip in his on-line “library”?
If he sees this post, he will most likely post a link.

Here is one of Brad’s filmstrips (maybe that link was posted earlier in this thread?)

Last edited by tclederman; Sun Feb 09 2020 02:14 AM. Reason: Added link

Tim
1954Advance-Design.com [1954advance-design.com]
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban [stovebolt.com] - part of the family for 49 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic [1954advance-design.com] - part of the family for 15 years
Z-series (54/55) GMC 350 (2-ton) COE [1954advance-design.com] - now part of Dave's family
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engine are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler. [chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com]
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345737 Sun Feb 09 2020 07:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,228
5
Master Gabster
Originally Posted by Jhyp
Thanks for you help. I'll look for a pic of properly installed mechanism and reassemble the parts accordingly.

I have never seen a good picture of rear Huck brake parts arrangement. The axle hub is always in the way.
You should be able to visualize what may be going on once you pull the drum back off. Its probably something simple which is easy to miss.
Its like a jigsaw puzzle where all of the pieces are the same shape. smile

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345742 Sun Feb 09 2020 07:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
I found this diagram of the Huck brake parts to be helpful when I was searching for my parking brake parts. The diagram is for a one-ton, but it will be a good representation of the parts.

One Ton Rear Brake

Here's a pic I took when I was trying to figure out where all the parking brake parts were located (Right Rear). Also, another diagram. Note the springs and lock pins (NSS Part of 5.043 Pin Unit) that secure the brake shoes to the backing plate. Yours appear to be missing and that would allow the entire assembly to shift when the PB is applied. You can see them installed in my pic.

Attached Files
Huck Assy.jpg (160.75 KB, 294 downloads)
Huck Diagram.jpg (89.43 KB, 290 downloads)
Last edited by HandyAndy; Sun Feb 09 2020 10:08 PM. Reason: Pics added.

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
HandyAndy #1345808 Mon Feb 10 2020 04:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Thanks Handy Andy. I'll give that a try. Everything else seems to be adjusted right.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345856 Mon Feb 10 2020 06:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
HandyAndy, I checked my brakes and see that there are no holes in the backing plate for the brake shoe retainer springs. I am running out of 'fix' options.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345858 Mon Feb 10 2020 07:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
I did a quick search and found this thread. Apparently, the springs were not part of the Huck brake assembly after '48.

1950 Huck 3100 truck brakes

I have a few follow-up questions for you:

Did the parking brake work prior to installing new brake shoes/cables?

Are the new shoes exact replacements as compared to the old ones?

Are the parking brake cables secured at the backing plate and on the frame rails in the clamps?

Are the new parking brake cables the same length as the old ones?

Is the eccentric bolt adjusted to the high side?

Here's another image that I found on the internet related to the Huck brake assembly.

Let us know, thanks.

Attached Files
Huck4.JPG (160 KB, 233 downloads)
Last edited by HandyAndy; Mon Feb 10 2020 10:25 PM. Reason: Question and pic added.

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345864 Mon Feb 10 2020 08:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
HandyAndy, thanks for hanging in there to help. Here are answers to your questions:
1) Don't remember.
2) Don't know. Unfortunately once I installed the new shoes I tossed the old ones without checking. Won't do that again.
3) Yes
4) Same answer as #2
5) Yes

With reference to your pic - this is exactly what my brakes look like. From my way of thinking if the slot in the rod was shorter, the lever would engage the rod sooner hereby pushing the front shoe forward to contact the drum before the lever hits the axle on the backing plate.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345880 Mon Feb 10 2020 09:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Sure, let's keep at it.

I went back and looked at this THREAD. Did you ever get the frame rail end of the cable(s) secured correctly? What's shown in the photo of your cable isn't right and would likely cause that lever to make contact with the backing plate. Can you show us how the PB cables are mounted at the frame rails?

Attached is a photo of the machined end of one of my old PB cables. Note the notch, that's where the bolt in the frame rail clamp rides and secures the cable so it won't move. I believe that's your problem: your cable end is past the frame rail clamp and that's why the lever hits the backing plate. The frame rail end of your cable doesn't look right to me.

Thanks,

Attached Files
Machined End.jpg (162.21 KB, 203 downloads)
Last edited by HandyAndy; Mon Feb 10 2020 10:05 PM. Reason: Pic added.

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1345975 Tue Feb 11 2020 04:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
HandyAndy
Here are pics of both ends of my new PB cable. The rail end does not look like your pic. You can see how it is clamped in. I don't think this is the problem. The rail clamp only secures the casing that the cable slides thru. It does not impact cable length. The only solution I can see right now is making the slot in the slotted rod shallower thereby allowing the leading brake shoe to contact the drum sooner. I know this is not how it was originally.

Attached Files
pb cable at rail.jpg (115.48 KB, 209 downloads)
pb cable.png (299.85 KB, 204 downloads)
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346023 Tue Feb 11 2020 09:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Jhyp,

Here are my thoughts. An engineer somewhere decided how long the PB inner cable and the cable housing should be. If you increase the length of the cable housing between the anchor points you will in effect, shorten the remaining balance of the inner cable. By doing this, the extra slack in the cable you now have will be less. I don't know if it's enough of a difference to make it operable, but I believe it's worth a try. I would certainly try it before you modify any of your perfectly good PB components.

See the inked version of your photo. The blue arrow is where the end of cable housing is now. Relocate it to the rear somewhere between the clamp bolt and the red arrow. By taking the slack out of the inner cable the PB lever should move without hitting the backing plate.

Attached Files
Inkedpb-cable-at-rail_LI.jpg (124.8 KB, 187 downloads)

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346053 Wed Feb 12 2020 12:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
I'll give it a try tomorrow. Thanks for the ongoing help.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346240 Wed Feb 12 2020 08:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Handy Andy,
Moved the anchor location on the rail clamp as you suggested. It made no difference in getting the PB lever to engage the slotted rod.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346267 Thu Feb 13 2020 12:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Well, it was worth a shot. I think your PB cables are too long or something else has been changed. Let's move this to a PM.


Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346421 Fri Feb 14 2020 12:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Jhyp,

It was great to talk with you this evening. Attached are the parking brake adjustment procedures, specifications of my PB cables, and a picture of my new cables. BTW, my cables were made by Madison Power Systems, Rochester Hills, MI. I'll look in my Huck brake parts cache for some of the components we discussed and make some measurements for the sake of comparison.

Let me know what you find after your work tomorrow, thanks.

Attached Files
1947 3100 Parking Brake Cable Specs.jpg (90.91 KB, 213 downloads)
New Brake Cables.jpg (77.36 KB, 215 downloads)
Last edited by HandyAndy; Fri Feb 14 2020 12:43 AM.

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346523 Fri Feb 14 2020 07:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
I dug up the lever and extension. You can see the overall length. The slot in the extension is 5/8" long and it's 1 1/4" long from the shoulder to the end. Note the PO's grinding marks on the lever. That's why I located and replaced all of my PB components. Let me know if you want/need other measurements.

Attached Files
3100 Huck Lever and Extension.jpg (204.75 KB, 174 downloads)

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346546 Fri Feb 14 2020 11:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Andy, here's my next step. Attached is a pic of my slotted rod and PB lever. As you can see they are the same as the ones you posted. I have posted a second pic which shows the lever and rod installed and with the brake cable fully released. at this point the slotted rod just barely engages the rod (arrow). The slot in the rod is 5/8" deep. I also measured the distance from the lever to the backing plate at the axle. It is 1". This should mean that if the slot is 5/8" deep and the distance between the lever and the backing plate in 1" when the PB cable is pulled tight the brake shoe should engage the drum but it does not! Hmmm?????? The new 'original' style PB cable I ordered from Jim Carter should be here early next week. I'll see if that make any difference.

Attached Files
PB lever & slotted rod.jpg (77.29 KB, 177 downloads)
Inkedslotted rod clearance_LI.jpg (174.72 KB, 176 downloads)
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346556 Sat Feb 15 2020 12:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Jhype,

Thanks for the update. I have a couple of questions for you:

1. Did you confirm the lever is adjusted correctly with the eccentric bolt as per the manual?

2. Can you confirm that you have the correct wheel cylinders on the rear backing plates?

It appears to be a lot of adjustment (too much) on the rear shoe. I don't know if it's possible to install the front wheel cylinders on the rear and vice versa, but I do know they are different part numbers. Rear bore size is 1 3/16" and front bore size is 1 1/4". Maybe just the incorrect rear wheel cylinders? Just a thought, since all the other components appear to be correct. Refer to my first post/picture in this thread. There's a notable difference. With that much adjustment on the rear shoe, the lever will never be able to properly engage the extension to activate the front shoe (PB).

NAPA UP3406 FRONT

NAPA UP3396 REAR


Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346562 Sat Feb 15 2020 01:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Andy,
Yes, eccentric bolt is adjusted correctly. Yes rear cylinders are 1 3/16" bore.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346575 Sat Feb 15 2020 02:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Okay, good to know, thanks.

When we spoke last evening, you mentioned the adjusters on the wheel cylinders. I can see the amount of over adjustment of the rear shoe in your photo. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of my driver's side, but do have a passenger side. Note how the arc of the shoes follow the backing plate in my photo. Look at where the arc of the shoe is in your photo. Again, there is no way the lever can engage the extension with the wheel cylinder adjusted that far out on the rear shoe. Bring that adjuster in, manually operate the cable watching for the cable to pull the lever, and watch for the lever to move the forward brake shoe. If this works as it should, maybe the drums aren't correct. If you have to adjust new brake shoes out that far something isn't right. Did you replace the rear brake drums? Maybe you inherited the wrong drums............ I'm just thinking out loud here.

At this point, we need to confirm that 'all' of the correct components are in play. Let me know, thanks.

Attached Files
YOURS Driver Side.jpg (174.64 KB, 141 downloads)
MINE Passenger Side.jpg (160.76 KB, 138 downloads)

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346580 Sat Feb 15 2020 03:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Andy, I will work on that over the weekend. I did not replace the drums. Can you measure the inside diameter of your rear drums?

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346588 Sat Feb 15 2020 05:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Okay, let me know how it goes.

Good to know on the drums. I looked online for a brake drum specification, most are listed as an 11" drum. This REAR BRAKE DRUM from Chevs of the 40's calls out a maximum diameter of 281.7 mm or 11.090 inches. If you still need me to pull a drum and measure it, let me know. I should have some time Saturday afternoon.

I also want to point out the difference in brake drums for the 1947-50 (Huck) and 1951-55 (Bendix). They are not interchangeable as shown below.

1941-1950 Brake Drums

1951-1970 Brake Drums

Last edited by HandyAndy; Sat Feb 15 2020 02:21 PM. Reason: Huck and Bendix links added.

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1346614 Sat Feb 15 2020 02:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Andy, thought you had something (I was hoping) with the brake drum size but unfortunately my drums measure 11" so that's not the problem.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1347173 Wed Feb 19 2020 05:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Carl/Andy,
Had to switch back to the forum from PM since PM does not allow pictures to be attached. Anyway, thanks Carl for your insights. To catch anyone else following this thread, based on everything that Andy and I have checked you think that the only two potential problem areas left are brake drums or brake shoes. Andy and I thought about the drums (in fact were hoping that my drums had been 'turned' to much). Not the case. I measured the inside diameter of my drums and they were 11". Andy found somewhere on line that new drums were 11.09" inside diameter. So we concluded the drums were not the problem. That leaves only the shoes. I will order a new set of rear shoes tonight from Classic Parts unless you or Andy have a better idea. I did receive a new rear wheel cylinder today from Classic Parts and it is the same size as the one that I have installed. I have attached a photo of my rear cylinder adjusted so that there is just a hint of a drag on the drums. As you can see the adjustment screws are 'way out' rather than close in as you would expect with good drums and new rear shoes.

Thanks to both of you for all your help.
jon

Attached Files
rear brake cylinder cropped.png (2.22 MB, 167 downloads)
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
HandyAndy #1347211 Thu Feb 20 2020 12:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Thanks for the update.

If you have time, I would still like to know if you can 'manually' pull the PB cable and engage the lever/extension bar to move the forward brake shoe with the adjuster turned in. If you can activate the PB doing that, your brake shoes may be the culprit........

Please keep us posted, thanks.




Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1347234 Thu Feb 20 2020 02:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,228
5
Master Gabster
Those screws are way too far out from the wheel cylinders. "Money, Its gotta be the shoes." (Old Nike commercial, my apologies.)

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1347240 Thu Feb 20 2020 03:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Andy, I will check it on Friday.
Carl/Andy, I will also order a new set of rear shoes tomorrow. I'll let you know what happens. I
Andy/Carl, just out of curiosity if either of you have new or near new rear shoes can you measure the thickness of pad material? Tkx

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1347284 Thu Feb 20 2020 07:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Andy, with the adjusters turned in to about 1/ 4" extended the brake shoes engage. Not a lot but some. Also my brake shoe pads are 3 /16" thick.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1347351 Fri Feb 21 2020 03:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Okay, that tells me the components of your PB will in fact engage the front shoe.

I don't have a 'new' shoe to measure; however, I took some pics with measurements for the sake of comparison. The thickness of the pad material is about 3/16" on the used shoes in the pictures.

See my next post for additional photos, thanks,

Attached Files
0 inches.jpg (130.58 KB, 128 downloads)
9 5-16 inches.jpg (207.73 KB, 129 downloads)
12.5 inches.jpg (100.02 KB, 130 downloads)

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1347352 Fri Feb 21 2020 03:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Additional pics. The camera angles make the measurements seem a little off. Let me know if you need any measurement confirmed.

These shoes were off my '47 3100.

Attached Files
1.0 inch.jpg (121.63 KB, 130 downloads)
2 3-8 inches.jpg (144.02 KB, 129 downloads)
9.0 inches.jpg (177.99 KB, 122 downloads)

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1347490 Sat Feb 22 2020 06:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Andy, I am out of town for the next week or so. I will check your measurements when I return. I have to tell you I am not encouraged that the shoes will be the problem. I think the pads would need to be 3/8" thick to make a difference.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349811 Fri Mar 13 2020 06:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Just to bring closure to this thread. I purchased a new set of rear brake shoes to see if that made any difference. Shoes were the only thing I didn't triple check. Any suggestions i got from Stovebolt I tried but nothing worked. Unfortunately the new shoes did not fix the PB problem! The PB lever still hits the axle before engaging and the wheel cylinders are still screwed out way to far to get the slightest hint of a drag. I'm stumped! Thank you to all who helped. Looks like I'll be driving without a parking brake.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349819 Fri Mar 13 2020 08:10 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,373
K
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Just a thought. Do you possibly have Bendix PB levers on Huck brakes?


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349821 Fri Mar 13 2020 08:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
The correct Huck levers are installed. Tkx.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349822 Fri Mar 13 2020 08:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,228
5
Master Gabster
In my opinion, you do not have a parking brake issue.
Given that your wheel cylinders are nearly cranked all of the way out in order for the shoes to make contact with the drums, leads me to believe that your issue is elsewhere. None of the parking brake parts can have any affect, nor can they overcome the cranked out cylinder screws.
Don't know if that helps. Its just my 2 cents.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349829 Fri Mar 13 2020 10:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
Thanks Carl. Don't know where else to look. Tried new shoes. No effect. Tried new cylinders. No effect. Measured inside of rear drum. Same inside diameter as a new drum (11"). Handy Andy and I have tried everything we can think of.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349833 Fri Mar 13 2020 11:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,511
D
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by Jhyp
The PB lever still hits the axle before engaging and the wheel cylinders


Do you happen to have a pic of this.? Im not following the axel portion.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349858 Sat Mar 14 2020 01:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
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Dads50, look back in this thread to Feb 8. The pics are there.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349867 Sat Mar 14 2020 12:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,511
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Ok.

Im thrown off because my 50 has the other style brake
Sorry cannot help

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349924 Sat Mar 14 2020 06:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,228
5
Master Gabster
You need to find someone who has the same year truck who is in the process of doing a brake job so that you can compare parts.
You either have wrong parts or a part installed in the wrong position.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349928 Sat Mar 14 2020 06:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,511
D
Shop Shark
If you look at the post on 2/14 it appears the spreader is shorter than the one handyandy posted?

But the photo could be deceiving

Attached Files
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349934 Sat Mar 14 2020 06:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
I'll be happy to re-measure any of the components as the camera angles certainly can be deceiving. The thing that bothers me about this matter is the amount of adjustment needed on the wheel cylinders to contact the brake drums for even a light drag. I have to wonder if the brake drums are past the service life spec of 281.7 mm or 11.090"?


Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1349950 Sat Mar 14 2020 07:37 PM
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Andy, I have asked Jim Carter and Chevy of the 40's to measure the ID of their new rear drums.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1350429 Tue Mar 17 2020 11:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,511
D
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Hope you get this sorted out

I drove my 50 for a short time with no parking brake
Kinda of a pain

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1352147 Sat Mar 28 2020 08:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
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Jhyp Offline OP
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Andy, here is the pic your requested. Getting a new rear drum on Tuesday. Hoping that solves the problem.

Attached Files
huck rear brake close up.png (3.52 MB, 136 downloads)
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1352393 Mon Mar 30 2020 01:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 166
J
Shop Shark
I still do not see any "J" hooks and hold down springs! These are important. I also have issue with the reproduction adjusting caps on the wheel cylinders "cheesie tin" Use original cast caps. Jerry


Thank you,
Jerry
------------------------------------
Jerry's Body Shop #52
jerrysbodyshop@comcast.net
816-833-4414
------------------------------------
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1352460 Mon Mar 30 2020 08:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
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Andy
Here is a pic of the adjusted wheel cylinder after the new rear drum was installed. Adjuster on the wheel cylinder is still way to far out. :-(

Attached Files
wheel cylinder after new drums v2.png (2.79 MB, 98 downloads)
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
jerryschevyparts #1352511 Tue Mar 31 2020 02:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,228
5
Master Gabster
Originally Posted by jerryschevyparts
I still do not see any "J" hooks and hold down springs! These are important. I also have issue with the reproduction adjusting caps on the wheel cylinders "cheesie tin" Use original cast caps. Jerry
Not all years of Huck assemblies had the j-hooks and hold down springs. I am totally on board with you about the inferior tin foil reproduction caps.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1352525 Tue Mar 31 2020 02:54 AM
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Ok everyone here is my update. I have replaced my rear wheel cylinders, brake shoes and brake drums. All of that hoping to resolve the problem that when I adjust the wheel cylinders so there is a slight shoe drag on the drum the adjustment screws are way to far out considering everything is new (see pic above). I got all my parts from Classic Parts in MO. There is certainly something wrong with the either the wheel cylinder, the shoes or the drum. I am truly at a loss in solving this problem. I am down to welding tabs on the shoes where they interface with the adjustment screws to reduce the outward adjustment. Just can't figure out how this was set up in the factory.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1352571 Tue Mar 31 2020 01:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
I can attest to Jon's attention to detail on his Huck style brake problem. This started out as a parking brake cable installation; however, it quickly turned into a brake problem. In order to get the parking brake functional the brake adjuster dilemma has to be resolved. You can see from the pictures Jon has posted, the amount of adjustment needed on the brake shoes/wheel cylinders to obtain a slight drag on the brake drums. The adjustment appears to be excessive, even with new shoes, wheel cylinders and drums.

About five years ago, I went through the same Huck brake rebuilding process. I replaced all lines, M/C, wheel cylinders, and brake shoes, albeit from another local vendor. The brake drums were good. My parking brake components were long gone. After I acquired the needed parts, all were assembled without any problems resulting in new Huck brakes and a functional parking brake.

Could reproduction parts be an issue, specifically the wheel cylinders? Have any of you Stovebolters experienced this problem? It seems odd to me that all new brake components result in the situation at hand. Let us know, we want to hear from you, thanks!


Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1352656 Tue Mar 31 2020 11:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,228
5
Master Gabster
OK, lets back waaaaay up. What is the history of this truck, specifically the rear axle and all of the parts associated with the brakes?
What did you throw out and replace?
For the geometry to be so far off for the wheel cylinder adjusters to be turned out so far to make contact with the drum, I have to wonder about the correctness of the parts attached to the bottom pivot pin, or the location of the holes in the backing plate for the two bolts down there.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1352658 Tue Mar 31 2020 11:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,664
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
On Wagoner/Lockheed the bottom two bolts are concentric and are part of the adjustment process. Not sure about Huck, I’ve never worked on them.🛠

Last edited by Justhorsenround; Tue Mar 31 2020 11:41 PM.

Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
‘65 Chevy Biscayne 4dr 230 I-6 one owner (I’m #2)
‘39 Dodge Businessmans Coupe
USAF 1965-69 Weather Observation Tech (got paid to look at the clouds)


"I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
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Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1352676 Wed Apr 01 2020 01:25 AM
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Carl, I've had the truck a number of years but never got around to its restoration. That is now nearly done. The individual i purchased it from was using it as a daily driver. Don't know much beyond that. As far as I know everything was original (a few minor exceptions). Don't really know how I would determine if the backing plate or rear axle was ever replaced. As far as the brakes go everything is original with the exception of the brake shoes and wheel cylinder (unfortunately I threw the originals out prematurely). I did purchase a new drum just to see what the actual ID of a new drum was. The replacement shoes and cylinder came from Classic Parts. I called them today to see if they could help or had any ideas. They said they have never encountered this problem and provided no help. I will check the bottom pivot pin and bolts location with Andy as we have been using his 48 or 49 (i forget which) as a reference since his brake geometry seems to be just fine.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1352853 Thu Apr 02 2020 04:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,228
5
Master Gabster
Good plan. An in-person, side-by-side comparison would solve this problem quickly.

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1353188 Fri Apr 03 2020 11:14 PM
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Posts: 179
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Jhyp Offline OP
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Andy, here are two more pics. can you look at your brakes and supply me with the requested measurements.

Attached Files
Inked50 chevy pu brake shoe_LI.jpg (339.28 KB, 71 downloads)
Inked50 chevy pu brakes_LI.jpg (122.42 KB, 71 downloads)
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1353242 Sat Apr 04 2020 03:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Jon,

I should be able to get your measurements tomorrow, late morning.


Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1353304 Sat Apr 04 2020 04:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Jon,

Here's what I came up with. Let me know if you need any confirmation.

Attached Files
InkedInked50-chevy-pu-brakes_LIajr.jpg (124.65 KB, 53 downloads)

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1353312 Sat Apr 04 2020 05:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
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Andy, I compared your measurements with my truck and they are the same (+-)! The geometry is the same. So I am back to square one. The Problem has to be in the shoes, cylinder or drum. Except we have checked all of those. Guess I will have to run the truck with the adjusted screws out to far and no parking brake unless someone with more knowledge than me has a solution. Again, thanks for all your help.
jon

Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1353316 Sat Apr 04 2020 05:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 848
Shop Shark
Jon,

Based on all of our measuring, comparing, and component swaps. I believe the only variable left is in the internals of the wheel cylinders. The piston, cup, or spring (or all) in the wheel cylinder must not be as thick/long as it (they) should be, causing you to have to crank the adjusters so far out. See Fig.50-Wheel Cylinder Parts Layout [chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com] from the 1948-51 Chevy Truck Shop Manual. Since the geometry all checks out, my recommendation would be find another source for the rear wheel cylinders.

Keep us posted.......

Last edited by HandyAndy; Sat Apr 04 2020 06:03 PM. Reason: Spring added to text.

Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3104 [flic.kr]
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred [flic.kr]

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: 1950 3100 parking brake
Jhyp #1353877 Tue Apr 07 2020 03:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 179
J
Jhyp Offline OP
Shop Shark
I am going to bring an end to this thread that I started. Originally it started as a parking brake issue but I (we) realized that it was really a brake issue. The Problem had to be with The drum, shoes or wheel cylinder. The Problem was when the brakes were fully assembled with new repro parts in order to get the slightest drag on the drums the wheel cylinder adjusters had to be adjusted 1/2" out (way to far). After trying many things the conclusion is that the wheel cylinder body length is to small. I have tried new cylinders from several sources without any luck. So I am going to have to live with the set up i have. Thank you all for your advise, ideas, suggestions and help.

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