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HELP - Clutch Issue
#1340601 Sun Jan 05 2020 05:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 160
C
Shop Shark
Here's the problem - The clutch fork spring will not stay in the fork and then the fork hits the bolt heads on the rear of the Borg and beck pressure plate. Second issue: clutch will not release allowing shifting of gears. Here's some background: I have a rolling chassis with a 54 235 installed. We attempted to do a dry run on the engine and drive train to lube up the ring gears and check brake operation. With the rear end up on jack stands we proceeded to run the engine and engage the clutch - the clutch wouldn't release enough to place it it gear and gears just ground and would not engage. The clutch pack was the diaphram type listed for earlier engines I have a 49 panel- installed new from our host on original build up.
So I figured that I needed the Borg and Beck style clutch ( as listed by our host) for a 54 engine so I order and installed it. Same issue with the inability to engage the gears and the fork spring popped loose when the fork hit the bolt head on the pressure plate due to the clutch pedal arm not being restrained by a floorboard ( this is a rolling chassis) which would hold the pedal arm down and the throw-out bearing way from the pressure plate.

Troubleshooting and engine comparison - I have another 235 with the diaphram clutch pack installed and there is almost 1 1/2 inch clearance between the fork and the pressure plate. With the Borg and Beck (three finger type) pressure plate there is less than about 1/4 inch clearance with the fork installed.
I installed a new clutch fork spring when installing the earlier pressure plate and when installing the later Borg and Beck pressure plate. The spring is installed according to the manual - curve out and horizontal placement in fork. The fork is a NOS replacement as well as the fork ball on initial build up. Comparing the fork grooves for the spring retainer seem the same - didn't actually measure the depth. The grooves seem too shallow to me to retain the spring very well. Spring quality is also suspect in my opinion it may not be good spring steel material.
The throw-out bearings are the correct ones for the installations Diaphram type - long / Borg and Beck - short. as supplied with the clutch pack kits from our host.

SO- I'm not sure where to go from here. I plan on removing the clutch pack this week and verifying the clutch plate is installed correctly. I am sure it is but then again anything is possible. Its a real bear trying to get the Borg and Beck style installed as it's thicker than the Diaphram type.

Anybody else have this issue.

Clutch adjust arm is adjusted to almost end of adjustment and if clutch was to need adjustment later there would be no adjustment room left on the arm.

Forum search indicates possible cause is clutch plate installed incorrectly. I believe both installations have had the plate installed correctly (plate marked / flywheel side) but will double check on next removal scheduled for this week.

Any suggestions or help appreciated. I sure am getting tired of pulling the transmission trying to get this fixed.


Still trying to get ole Betsy back on the road.
Re: HELP - Clutch Issue
Craig /49 Panel #1340606 Sun Jan 05 2020 06:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,449
5
Master Gabster
Clutch plate may be on backwards.

Re: HELP - Clutch Issue
Craig /49 Panel #1340698 Mon Jan 06 2020 01:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 160
C
Shop Shark
Thanks - thats my next check to make sure I had it in right.


Still trying to get ole Betsy back on the road.
Re: HELP - Clutch Issue
Craig /49 Panel #1340781 Mon Jan 06 2020 11:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 825
D
Shop Shark
Something to check, the stock diaphragm pressure plate is flat fingered and uses the longer gm throwout bearing. The higher performance diaphragm clutches have cone/raised fingers and use the shorter GM throwout bearing. The B&B, I am not sure but I think it takes the shorter version. So if you are using the shorter throwout bearing on a stock diaphragm pressure plate, that might explain the lack of release.


Mike
Re: HELP - Clutch Issue
Craig /49 Panel #1340980 Wed Jan 08 2020 01:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 160
C
Shop Shark
Dragsix - thanks for the response to my problem. Today I finally got around to working on this again and through a bunch of trial and error ( four installs) I finally got a combination to work. I am using the flat finger clutch and the long throwout bearing. I don't know exactly were I went wrong from the original installation or the last three attempts at installing the clutch but FINALLY I got it right. I now have two used clutch set ups and one new Borg and Beck unit incase I ever need a replacement nanner
Thanks again for chiming in.


Still trying to get ole Betsy back on the road.
Re: HELP - Clutch Issue
Craig /49 Panel #1341116 Wed Jan 08 2020 11:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 825
D
Shop Shark
Excellent! Glad its working again.


Mike

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