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1964 C60 Questions #1334247 Mon Nov 18 2019 08:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 15
H
HFfarms Offline OP
New Guy
Afternoon All,

I picked up a 1964 C60 last week (292 4+2) and have been working on it ever since. I am new to this era, and have spent a lot of time here reading and digging up info. But, I didnt find answers to all my questions and wanted to post them up here.

Last weekend I got the old 292 tuned up a bit and the 2 speed axle shifting properly again mostly. I can hi-low split shift up until 4th, and she doesn’t like/wont shift into 4 low. Just grinds away until brought to a stop. She split shifts all other gears perfectly though, BUT, the axle wont drop into gear without the clutch.

So; Clutch in -> Shift to first -> actuate 1st low -> clutch out -> reach speed -> actuate 1st high -> clutch in -> count 2, clutch out. Repeat through all other gears. Without the clutch, rear axle wont drop into gear. Its my understanding that hi-lo shift shouldn’t require clutch. I’m wondering if I’m not pulling strong enough vacuum in the line. Or maybe the axle diaphragm is worn? Or maybe im just overzelous on the gas. Also, I cant downshift trans to 1st at all. She just grinds horribly Wont allow 1st gear trans shift unless stationary or <4mph. I’m assume thats a synchro problem in the trans however.

I am currently tracing electrical problems. Ignition works fine, but nothing else electrical works. There is a secondary power switch next to the PTO controls. A translucent red light up 'pull out push in' switch. I cannot for the life of me determine what it is/does but it looks to be factory and wired from the factory, but it isnt shown in the witinf diagrams of the shop manual. Any idea? I can get a picture to help.

Other than the PTO control wires being fused and inoperable, the PTO and rams still work beautifully with the manual control on the frame. I didn’t expect a dual piston setup and was very happy when I saw that. Question though, the rams are very loose on the pivot points on either end. Like, hot dog down a hallway loose. Is there supposed to be a bushing between the ram and the shaft it pushes against?

Also out of curiosity, the GVW on the door states 19,500 lbs and research shows me that dry the girl should weight around 9500 lbs, so technically is this truck then a 5 ton? I was under the assumption that the C60 family was all 2.5 ton trucks, but this GVW shows me at double that, on a single dual axle as well.

I have to bleed the brakes once the new line is in, but have never bled brakes on a vehicle this old with hydro-vac and no ABS. I purchased the 1964 shop manual only to find that it is an augmentation to the ‘63 manual which covers brakes. The '63 manual is on order but still a week or so out, so what is the process to bleed the system on these older trucks? I have heard it different from everywhere I've researched.

The only other thing I know I have to do is wheels. All 6 are widow makers, and part of the reason I talked the price down so low. I don’t even plan on adding air to these beasts and am hesitant to even remove them from the axles. Rubber looks good enough, so ill drive on them until I source some proper ring split wheels to replace with. I figure when I park her this coming summer for a proper rebuild is when I’ll do the wheels as well.

My goal is to run her all winter logging season this year and then park her in the late spring for a month or two and do a complete overhaul. Pull the cab and get down to bare frame and clean, grind, and recoat every surface with POR15, redo the kingpins, replace wheel bearings and carrier bearing, replace a multitude of other parts, and fully rewire, re-brake, as well as repaint and possibly repower (discussion for another time).

There is very little info on any of this on the net, so from personal experience, does anyone have any suggestions? Again, I want to thank everyone so far for all that I’ve learned in the past two weeks here just reading. Old Iron is beautiful and just not that common anymore, so I’d love for her to continue running the roads for a long time, thus I don’t mind a bit of investment. She’ll make me plenty of money so im willing to put some into her. Plus, its fun, I like wrenching, and the wife actually likes this project because "that truck is beautiful."

Thanks all.

Last edited by 69Cuda; Tue Nov 19 2019 07:05 AM. Reason: wording
Re: 1964 C60 Questions [Re: HFfarms] #1334309 Tue Nov 19 2019 04:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,433
R
Rich'sToys Offline
Shop Shark
Not totally sure on this, but I'm not sure the transmission is synchronized in first gear. You probably do need to be almost stopped for that.

The red push-pull switch could be any number of things. Four way flashers comes to mind.

On your two speed axle, if you're running empty I wouldn't bother split shifting it. Just leave it in high. Loaded, you could either split shift it or else just run it through the gears in low, then put it into high after you're in fourth. This would depend on how heavy your load is and how the truck handles it. You'll get the feel for it after you've driven it some.

I'm sure others with more knowledge than I will be along to answer your other questions.


Rich

'47 Loadmaster

Life is like a roll of toilet paper--the closer you get to the end, the faster it goes!






Re: 1964 C60 Questions [Re: HFfarms] #1334315 Tue Nov 19 2019 07:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 2,027
69Cuda Offline
Big Bolt Forum Moderator
as far as shifting the 2-speed rear, I am not an expert (there are guys on here that have been driving them way longer than I but, using your terminology, if you are in low, you activate high, then let off the gas a bit to allow it to shift into high. if shifting from hi to low, activate low, let off the gas a tad, then give it more gas.

I have a viking 60 (1958) and the tag on it says 16,000 pounds. Yours probably has a bit heavier axles and springs to make up the difference. Mine has a steel dump on it and also weighs about 9 empty. I don't shift the rear unless I am real loaded (pulling my 7,000 pound travel trailer) and even then, only if I am going up a hill and need to find the right gear.

As far as bleeding brakes, I made a power bleeder out of a cheap garden sprayer and an extra master cyl cap. Bleeding sequence should be pretty much the same as on my 58 with the hydra-vac. Hydravac unit has 2 bleeders on it, bleed the one farthest away from the output line first, then the one closest to the output line next. The link below is the sequence for the 55, which has the hydrovac unit on passenger side. My 58 is on driver side so, I swapped the order of rear wheels (per instructions in my 58 manual). Pay attention to the loosening of the upper shoes before bleeding! (if you have the same brake shoe setup) otherwise you won't get all the air out.

http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1955truck2/55ctsm0507.htm

As far as your transmission, it is probably an SM420, and 1st is not synchronized so YES, it will gtind when going into 1st unless you are barely moving or double-clutch it.


Mike

1955 Chevy 6400 ex-flatbed (no bed now!)
In the Stovebolt Gallery


1958 Chevy 6400 flatbed W/dump
In the Stovebolt Gallery

1959 Chevy Suburban Owned for almost 20 years, Daily Driver -- sold May 2016
In the Stovebolt Gallery

Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof
Re: 1964 C60 Questions [Re: HFfarms] #1334319 Tue Nov 19 2019 12:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 30
H
Homer58 Offline
Wrench Fetcher
The 2 soeed is a bit of an art takes a bit to find the groove of when to shift . It's always helped me to listen to the truck when shifting . Use the 2 speed button early like when your going from 2 high to 3 low , hit the button to low range then shift up to 3rd. 3low to high pull button up ease off or maybe touch the clutch to let everything get meshed. More you drive it you will get the feel for it and I'm with 69 cuda I only use the low side loaded for rhe most part on my 58 also.

If you dont have a bleeder trying to get going on an old system like that crack all 4 wheel bleeders top off the master let it sit and let gravity do the work for you check the master here and there topping it off let it sit like that all day or over night . Close it back off then strat bleeding it regularly. Will get you close rather then pumping it half the day.

Re: 1964 C60 Questions [Re: HFfarms] #1334320 Tue Nov 19 2019 12:25 PM
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,264
J
John Milliman Offline
Founder/Developer
I'll leave the rest of it for the experts, but just a quick note on this part:
Originally Posted by HFfarms


Also out of curiosity, the GVW on the door states 19,500 lbs and research shows me that dry the girl should weight around 9500 lbs, so technically is this truck then a 5 ton? I was under the assumption that the C60 family was all 2.5 ton trucks, but this GVW shows me at double that, on a single dual axle as well.


It's common in the truck world to confuse "GVW" with "2-ton" versus "1/2-ton," etc). First off, go read our Tech Tip on this subject. But in a nut shell, the truck's GVW as listed on the data plate is the important one to know for loading the bed of the truck. Whether the truck is called a "half-Ton" or a "2-ton" or a "5-ton" is an archaic holdover from the early days and *only* refers to the weight/load rating of the *front* axle.

This becomes important when you start thinking about a repower. If you go with a heavy engine (like a V-8 or a diesel of some sort) and a heavier transmission, or anything that puts more weight on the front axle (including the rest of the front of the truck) than, say, "2 tons," you will want to replace your front axle, as well, or you may be dangerously overloading your front axle.

About the 2-speed -- Smooth 2-speed axle shifting comes with practice. And don't use the clutch! Do it in this order -- 1. Pull (or push) the knob in 2. let off on the accelerator and count to two/wait for the clunk, and 3. return to the accelerator. (Don't get steps one and two reversed or you will get a bad noise frown ) That's how it always worked for me on my '65 big truck. Upshifting is easier than down shifting. And keep in mind that shifting the 2-speed is much harder when the truck is empty/light. Try leaving the axle in low range until you get to the top and then shift the axle into high -- treat it like an overdrive. When it comes time to down shift, leave it in high until you get to the bottom (when you are stopped at the light, push in the knob and wait for the clunk). The purpose of the two-speed is to help the "little" engines start big loads and to keep speed up when shifting on hills. So when the truck is light/empty, you might not need to use low range at all. Of course, your application may be different from mine -- I had a GMC 4400 with the 305 v-6 (the torque monster). The 292 may be similar, though, so try it and see. When it comes time to drive the truck with an actual load on it, then you will want to use the 2-speed on every shift and you will find it behaves much better.

Now get rid of those RH-5's as soon as you can. smile Do *not* load that truck with much weight until you have safe wheels, and new, properly inflated tires! (and good brakes and steering, too!) We want you around for a long time now that you've found us. smile

Welcome aboard! Check out the rest of our Tech Tips, too.

John


John

'49 Chevrolet 3804

Re: 1964 C60 Questions [Re: HFfarms] #1334352 Tue Nov 19 2019 04:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,026
M
Mike B Offline
Shop Shark
Welcome to the Stove bolt wave

I agree with all of the above information.

As for you wheels, how many lugs do you have? If 6 -lug, they will be Budd wheels and you should be able to get replacement 22.5" tubeless wheels and tires. They came on lots of trucks and buses in the 60's and 70's. The RH-5's have been known to blow apart without warning, so take John's advise and replace them before putting the truck back in service. When you are ready to replace them, just let the air out and then they are safe to work around.

Mike B smile

Re: 1964 C60 Questions [Re: HFfarms] #1334423 Wed Nov 20 2019 02:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 15
H
HFfarms Offline OP
New Guy
Good to know about the transmission in 1st gear. I never knew they prevented 1st in the downshift. I assume this was to protect 1st since its so crucial in getting moving with a load?

I was of the understanding that shifting the axle shouldn't require the clutch. I assume I was just overzealous and didn't give it the time to engage before getting back on the gas. Ill play with it some more once I get the brake line in. That said, is it bad to use the clutch when shifting hi-lo? Also, I assume that to use axle low when downshifting and engine braking is just a reverse of the up shifting process. Any special considerations when downshifting through each gear? Seems complex and possibly damaging if not done perfectly.

Yeah the wheels are a large concern on my end. They are actually the 10 lug style on a 5 bolt front axle so replacement should be plentiful at the local truck yards. Ill start calling around tomorrow for a set in decent shape. I do a lot of "questionable" and borderline sketchy things on farm life, but center splits flat out terrify me and I give them wide berth. Surprisingly not illegal in this state, but not any reason to try and keep them. Any firsthand advice on style of tire? Research shows that tubeless radials seem to handle/ride better, and I'm all about that!

I appreciate the insight on the terminology, and it all makes sense. I'm from the world of M35A2 Deuce-and-a-Halfs and M813 5 ton and the terminology was confusing me. But good call on the front axle designation in conjunction with a repower. The goal would be to repower with a diesel so ill have to look into front axle weight to see what is possible or what may need swapped.

Does anyone by chance have any advice on literature for this series truck? I'd love to find all I can to learn everything about the line to know what options there are out there. Barring shop manuals, I havent really found any good spec sheets.

And Great point on the bleeding process with gravity. I like that idea a lot! Im going to give it a shot if I can.

Thanks for all the replies and input, I greatly appreciate it all.

Re: 1964 C60 Questions [Re: HFfarms] #1334430 Wed Nov 20 2019 04:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,026
M
Mike B Offline
Shop Shark
The 22.5" one piece rims with the 5/10 lug and the 5.25" center hole are getting hard to find. That lug pattern is available in the 19.5" rims, but they will look small in your wheel openings.

The 22.5 tubeless rim is the direct replacement for the 20" tube type rim. To keep the same tire diameter you go UP one tire size number when going from 20 to 22.5.

7.50x20 = 8.25x22.5
8.25x20 = 9.00x22.5
9.00x20 = 10.00x22.5
10.00x20 = 11.00x22.5


Mike B smile

Re: 1964 C60 Questions [Re: HFfarms] #1334436 Wed Nov 20 2019 04:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 30
H
Homer58 Offline
Wrench Fetcher
"That said, is it bad to use the clutch when shifting hi-lo? Also, I assume that to use axle low when downshifting and engine braking is just a reverse of the up shifting process. Any special considerations when downshifting through each gear? Seems complex and possibly damaging if not done perfectly"

Shouldn't really need the clutch , I always just pop the button down to low then give it an easy rev on the motor. Listen and feel when it shifts range you will get more use to hearing the right rpm for the shifts. 4 low to 3 high pull up to high then shift to 3rd and so on going down or up. If you are using the 2 spd the 2 speed button first then shift . Little practice you will get it figured out..

Re: 1964 C60 Questions [Re: HFfarms] #1334440 Wed Nov 20 2019 04:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,433
R
Rich'sToys Offline
Shop Shark
As far as literature is concerned, I would check Ebay. You never know what will pop up there.


Rich

'47 Loadmaster

Life is like a roll of toilet paper--the closer you get to the end, the faster it goes!






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