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Re: GarWood PTO [Re: cameo1956] #1332875 Thu Nov 07 2019 03:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,879
Justhorsenround Online
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
We encourage naming the companies our members have good dealings with.


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
ā€˜65 Chevy Biscayne 4dr 230 I-6 one owner (Iā€™m #2)
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Re: GarWood PTO [Re: cameo1956] #1332967 Fri Nov 08 2019 11:40 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 675
T
tom moore Offline
Shop Shark
Darn. You fixed it! I would have gladly taken your nice truck off your hands. Nice going on the PTO. Would be nice to know the name of the PTO vendor. I may need them for my 1 ton dump. It has a long defunct Arrow Manufacturing. co. PTO. After a couple years of random searches I found a book from them listing their models and how to install. Last week our new puppy happily pulled it off the shelf and chewed it to pieces.

Attached Files
Arrow.JPG (32.9 KB, 98 downloads)
Last edited by tom moore; Fri Nov 08 2019 01:34 PM.
Re: GarWood PTO [Re: tom moore] #1333034 Fri Nov 08 2019 10:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 253
C
cameo1956 Offline OP
Shop Shark
The folks that I worked with on the PTO rebuild is Inland Truck in Missoula Montana. I found them by googling and calling U.S.-wide anyone who indicated they did work on older PTOs, even some here in Boise who bailed as soon as I indicated my truck is a '48. Most of the trucking companies are in the repair or remove and replace business with current models and mostly electric or electronic PTOs on big stuff. They were nice about it, mostly just gave me the "go away please" treatment. Then I found the guys in Missoula. They are part of a very large trucking service and parts company. The closest branches to me were in Denver and Missoula, so, Missoula being closer, I called them. Randy answered the phone. He is the service manager and he was most helpful and told me he had 30 years experience and Ken (the General Manager) had 40 so they should be able to help. He was totally familiar with GarWood and told me to send it up. After that, Ken took a personal interest himself and even sent my worn shifter out to a friend for some some needed machine work before reassembly. Anyway, here's their info if you can use it. I hope it can help you as they helped me.

https://www.inlandtruck.com/locatio...ign=gmb&utm_content=montana_missoula

BTW Tom, I have looked high and low for any manuals for these old GarWood PTOs and never found anything, so congrats on the Arrow find. Guess the new puppy was looking too?

Last edited by cameo1956; Sat Nov 09 2019 02:42 PM.
Re: GarWood PTO [Re: cameo1956] #1333163 Sun Nov 10 2019 12:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,274
H
Hotrod Lincoln Offline
Boltergeist
You're right about gasket thickness bring important. Most PTO's have a pipe plug somewhere on the housing that allows a dial indicator to contact one of the gears, and different thickness gaskets or several thin ones are used to achieve a minimum amount of backlash. That "thick" gasket might be a multi-layer item that can be peeled back a little at a time if the backlash is too much.


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

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Re: GarWood PTO [Re: Hotrod Lincoln] #1333346 Mon Nov 11 2019 04:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 253
C
cameo1956 Offline OP
Shop Shark
Hi Jerry, what's "backlash"? It shifts easier than before, but I am surprised that it seems to run noisier than what I expected when I let the clutch out, at least to me. Perhaps these things just run noisy normally? Seems two gears running smoothly in a sea of gear oil should be happier and quieter. I hear no clanking, just whirring. Still not sure I got it right on the gasket thickness just because it doesn't leak. That dial indicator would have been great, but no such luck on this old puppy from what I can see.

Dale

Re: GarWood PTO [Re: cameo1956] #1333347 Mon Nov 11 2019 05:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,830
2-Ton Offline
Shop Shark
There are several youtube videos showing what backlash is.
Here is just one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2kneEjXw6E

Don


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Re: GarWood PTO [Re: cameo1956] #1333368 Mon Nov 11 2019 07:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,274
H
Hotrod Lincoln Offline
Boltergeist
Simply stated, backlash is the clearance between the transmission counter gear (sometimes called the "cluster" gear), and the PTO gear that engages it. When the PTO is shifted into mesh with the cluster, there will be a slight amount of free play between the gears. If the gears bottom out, they will be noisy, and/or the PTO will be difficult to engage. If the clearance is too great, the gears will whine or rattle from the slack between the mating teeth. Ideally, the gears should mesh with a minimum of slack, and the noise should be at a minimum at that point. Now, here's the kicker- - - - -used gears develop a "wear pattern" from long term running in a particular position, and a change from that relationship, even if the new clearance is technically correct, can cause a whine due to the established running fit being disturbed. You might have to shim the PTO in or out to get the quietest operation, even if the slack between the meshed gears is a bit more than ideal. Virtually all PTO's have a method of checking gear clearance through some type of access hole that allows you to monitor the gear movement. Most often, it's done by removing the grease fill plug and adapting a dial indicator to contact a gear tooth.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: GarWood PTO [Re: Hotrod Lincoln] #1333773 Thu Nov 14 2019 05:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 253
C
cameo1956 Offline OP
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by Hotrod Lincoln
Virtually all PTO's have a method of checking gear clearance through some type of access hole that allows you to monitor the gear movement.
Jerry


From what I can see the only possibility of an access hole on this model might be that protuberance just over the shift shaft, however, that projection does not appear to have been used or drilled/tapped for any purpose. There are no other access holes on this particular model, on one side the only openings are for shaft projection, on the other side the only openings contain the drive shaft bearings and the shift shaft movement chamber. I do appreciate all the detailed backlash information. I intend now to experiment; first remove a gasket layer, then add layer if removal doesn't quiet the gear noise. Would be great to have it running more smoothly. Thanks for all the help.
Dale

Attached Files
IMG_2994.JPG (294.58 KB, 40 downloads)
Re: GarWood PTO [Re: cameo1956] #1333805 Thu Nov 14 2019 09:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,274
H
Hotrod Lincoln Offline
Boltergeist
If the center of that raised boss is above the gear when the PTO is engaged, I'd be strongly tempted to drill and tap it for a pipe plug, either a 1/4" NPT or a 3/8" NPT. Then you could monitor the tooth engagement and adjust the shim pack accordingly.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
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