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Re: My 235 revved, died, won't start, and no coil fire or rotor spin. [Re: showme] #1325979 Fri Sep 13 2019 02:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 12
T
Thrifty51 Offline
New Guy
Showme-

I feel your pain... If your rockers aren't rockin' when you crank the engine, prepare to roll up your sleeves and get dirty.

It's not a hard job to do but you have to make sure you take it slow and get everything just right when you put it back together. While the gear change can be done with the cam in the block--like HRL has said--I think it might be wise to just pull the cam rather than accidentally pop the freeze plug behind the cam and have to pull the whole engine. I pulled the cam and in the process found 3 lifters that needed replaced--you never know what you're gonna find!

I was lucky and had access to some homemade tools that made the job easy. Scratch that--I have access to a father-in-law who's a retired machinist who loves old machinery and had nothing better to do than turn up some homemade tools that made the job easy! We actually made a drill and tap guide to thread the end of the crank, allowing me to attach a threaded rod to the crank to push the crank gear and balancer back on instead of hammering them on. I probably should have taken pictures of the process but it was 88 degrees, I was tired, and I just wanted to get it done. After they were installed a retaining bolt fills the hole and gives added assurance that the balancer will stay in place.

The worst part about the whole situation is that you're gonna need to pull the head--I can almost guarantee you'll find nicely stamped intake valve sized circles in the soot on top of your pistons... Be prepared for new valves and probably new push rods. There's no point in trying to straighten any bent parts; once they get hot again they'll move all over. I got all my parts from the local Napa; all Sealed Power. 6 push rods, 6 intake valves, timing gear set and gasket set was $345.

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Fiber gear confetti
Re: My 235 revved, died, won't start, and no coil fire or rotor spin. [Re: Thrifty51] #1325992 Fri Sep 13 2019 05:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,772
5
52Carl Offline
Master Gabster
Originally Posted by Thrifty51
Showme-

I feel your pain... If your rockers aren't rockin' when you crank the engine, prepare to roll up your sleeves and get dirty.

It's not a hard job to do but you have to make sure you take it slow and get everything just right when you put it back together. While the gear change can be done with the cam in the block--like HRL has said--I think it might be wise to just pull the cam rather than accidentally pop the freeze plug behind the cam and have to pull the whole engine. I pulled the cam and in the process found 3 lifters that needed replaced--you never know what you're gonna find!

I was lucky and had access to some homemade tools that made the job easy. Scratch that--I have access to a father-in-law who's a retired machinist who loves old machinery and had nothing better to do than turn up some homemade tools that made the job easy! We actually made a drill and tap guide to thread the end of the crank, allowing me to attach a threaded rod to the crank to push the crank gear and balancer back on instead of hammering them on. I probably should have taken pictures of the process but it was 88 degrees, I was tired, and I just wanted to get it done. After they were installed a retaining bolt fills the hole and gives added assurance that the balancer will stay in place.

The worst part about the whole situation is that you're gonna need to pull the head--I can almost guarantee you'll find nicely stamped intake valve sized circles in the soot on top of your pistons... Be prepared for new valves and probably new push rods. There's no point in trying to straighten any bent parts; once they get hot again they'll move all over. I got all my parts from the local Napa; all Sealed Power. 6 push rods, 6 intake valves, timing gear set and gasket set was $345.

Is it just me or are those gears bone dry? Did you clean them up for picture day or was the oil nozzle plugged up?

Re: My 235 revved, died, won't start, and no coil fire or rotor spin. [Re: showme] #1326012 Fri Sep 13 2019 12:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 514
S
showme Offline OP
Shop Shark
I'm going to show my ignorance of engine innards here. The cam shaft is the lower one, right? The timing gear the larger one to the left? Or am I wrong. This is all a learning experience for me. But I can now see how the stripped teeth could leave nothing turning in there. Thanks, Lee

Re: My 235 revved, died, won't start, and no coil fire or rotor spin. [Re: 52Carl] #1326018 Fri Sep 13 2019 01:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 12
T
Thrifty51 Offline
New Guy
52Carl- They were oily but probably not as much as they should have been. The hole was open in the oil nozzle and I cleaned it out the best I could while it was apart but, other than a complete teardown, I don't know how I could clear it out if it's plugged further back. If you have ideas I'm open to them.

Showme- the lower gear is the crank gear, the larger gear is the cam gear. Both gears together are the timing gear set.

Re: My 235 revved, died, won't start, and no coil fire or rotor spin. [Re: showme] #1326096 Sat Sep 14 2019 12:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 514
S
showme Offline OP
Shop Shark
Thanks, Thrifty. Now I know.

Re: My 235 revved, died, won't start, and no coil fire or rotor spin. [Re: showme] #1326107 Sat Sep 14 2019 01:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,484
H
Hotrod Lincoln Offline
Boltergeist
Thrifty- - - -spin the oil pump with a cutoff screwdriver bit in a drill motor and see if oil dribbles out of the lubricator nozzle. If the oil pan is removed, just hang it back on with a few bolts and put 2-3 quarts of oil in- - - -the oil you drained out to remove the pan will work just for testing purposes. If it doesn't flow oil, adapt an air hose to the nipple and give it a squirt of high pressure air to clear it, hopefully.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: My 235 revved, died, won't start, and no coil fire or rotor spin. [Re: showme] #1326125 Sat Sep 14 2019 05:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 160
1
1Ton_tommy Offline
Shop Shark
This is not the end of the world. Don't sell the truck and don't take the engine out and take it to a shop.

I have pulled and replaced aluminum timing gears for the purpose of installing offset keys without pulling the cam out of the engine. If you get the aluminum gear good and hot and use oven mitts and are quick about it you should not have to bang on anything.

BUT

Since the gear failed with the engine running, a crank counterweight (or maybe its a rod, I forget which) likely wiped out a cam lobe. The clearances are that tight. The cam must be timed with the crank for the cam lobes to miss the crank. If it didn't catch a cam lobe, you just got lucky. You can check by pulling all the lifters and watching the cam go round and round through the lifter bores. This is less work than pulling the grill on a rusty AD. Don't know about a Task Force.

You might get lucky in the bent valve department too because when the gear starts to strip, the valve timing retards enough that the intake valves will start opening with the piston well into the down stroke and it will quit running altogether shortly thereafter. The exhaust valves are not a problem. When this happened to me it did no valve damage but I had to replace the cam.

BTW

There is a separate part number for timing gears for trucks vs cars. The truck ones are aluminum, the car ones are fiber, which run quieter. Don't replace the fiber gear with another fiber gear. Get an aluminum one. Fiber ones fail in trucks. Of course, use Hot Rod's method of checking for oil flow to the gear. Also, pull the pan and clean all the shreaded gear pieces out of the oil pump pickup screen and anywhere else you find them.

Make sure you get the timing marks lined up properly because you don't get a second chance after the gear cools. IF the timing marks aren't lined up you'll have to get out your puller and start over. Also, when you change the crank gear make sure not to get it on backwards with the timing marks on the back. I did this on an IH inline six one time and horror of horrors, the bolt holes for pulling the gear were blind and with the gear on backwards there was no way to get it off.


51 3800 PU, 55 235 (w/cam, headers, 2 carbs, MSD ign.), SM420 & Brown-Lipe 6231A 3spd aux. trans, stock axles & brakes. Owned since 1971.
Re: My 235 revved, died, won't start, and no coil fire or rotor spin. [Re: showme] #1333123 Sat Nov 09 2019 06:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 731
HandyAndy Offline
Shop Shark
showme,

Any progress on your 235?


Andy

His: 1947 Chevrolet 3100
Hers: 2008 American Saddlebred

"A Jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: My 235 revved, died, won't start, and no coil fire or rotor spin. [Re: showme] #1333132 Sat Nov 09 2019 09:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 39
D
dbwr Offline
Wrench Fetcher
A bit of a newbie on this particular engine (235)
but I just changed the starter - while reconnecting
the green and purple ( I know they have better
names, but ..) the green wire fell to the ground.
Wait, what ? That was just on the coil ...
Turns out vibration and dry air made that wire
super brittle. Checked the other side of coil - to -
distributor : it too running on 1 strand of multi-strand
twisted wire. ( how was it even running ?)
All good now. Don't overlook simple stuff.


1960 C20
Re: My 235 revved, died, won't start, and no coil fire or rotor spin. [Re: showme] #1333203 Sun Nov 10 2019 01:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 514
S
showme Offline OP
Shop Shark
Thanks again, everybody. I'm learning more each time I check back here.

HandyAndy- nothing done yet. Although this has been my daily driver since I bought it 6-7 years ago, I have an '05 1 ton Silverado 4x4 that I'm using. The main reason I haven't gotten any further is that we are working on some property that lies 30 miles south of us, and we've been trying to get ready to build a house and shop on it. Not to mention I've been helping my daughter and her kids get their house together since they moved in to it. Nearly every day I tell my wife, "I've got to get the truck into the shop and get that fixed!", and then the next project on the list comes up and it's put off again. I need to also pull the hood and get it sanded down and painted, due to some surface rust that's starting to pop out. I figure I could just pull the hood and grill and send it via AAA to the shop, to make it easier on them, and have the hood re-worked and then buy the chrome grill I've been wanting to get anyway, and kill 3 birds with one stone. But as of this moment, it's still sitting patiently on the curb in front of our house, waiting. I changed a water pump and thermostat yesterday on my wife's jeep grand Cherokee, which also needs the oil filter 90* adapter's seals changed (damned engineers!), and today we are going to the property to work on burning a brush pile and putting in a new key switch and pulling two wheels/tires off our Polaris ranger in order to put new tires on it this week. Not to mention cutting some trees down, grading the road, hanging a new gate at the entrance, fixing some wires on the 5th wheel that mice have chewed in half, yada, yada, yada. I work harder since I've retired than I did before, it seems like! smile

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