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Re: Clutch Confusion
tclederman #1331199 Fri Oct 25 2019 08:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 184
G
Shop Shark
I'm resurrecting an old post to provide an update on what finally happened.

It took me 2 years to get to the point of actually installing the heavy duty flywheel. The actual installation was easy. It fit onto the crank perfectly and bolted easily. Adding the new clutch was fiddly, but I managed. The issue came when I tried to install the clutch release fork. It would not fit between the stud and the new clutch cover. No matter how I tried to wiggle it past, it would not fit. So I went to the engine that I had recently removed from the truck and looked at the clearance between the stud and clutch cover there. There was a significant amount of additional space on the old engine.

I tried to measure the thickness of both flywheels and it appears that the heavy duty flywheel is much thicker than the regular one. On the order of about a 1/2" thicker. So now it seems as though I'm going to have to remove the clutch and heavy duty flywheel and go to the original one, after getting it resurfaced and replacing the ring gear with a 12V ring gear to match my starter.

The other issue was the pilot bushing fitting into an original powerglide equipped engine. I did buy the recommended bushing. When test fitting the bushing, I found that the one that came in the clutch kit was a better fit to the transmission input shaft than the extra one that I bought. So I went with that one. It was an extremely tight fit when installing it into the crank, but it did eventually seat all the way.

I'll add some pics of the clearances between the stud and clutch cover and one of the pilot bushing after installation. The clearance pics are kinda hard to see, but better than nothing. In the pilot bushing pic, I had not yet removed the old powerglide flexplate when I took the pic.

Attached Files
HD clearance.jpg (80.3 KB, 160 downloads)
regular clearance.jpg (75.76 KB, 160 downloads)
pilot bushing in powerglide engine.jpg (105.64 KB, 160 downloads)

Mike

1953 3100
1994 Chevy 1500 (Donated to charity 2016)


My Photobucket Pics

My Restoration Adventure Blog
Re: Clutch Confusion
Gray_Ghost #1331231 Fri Oct 25 2019 11:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,446
5
Master Gabster
Would you have more wiggle room with the clutch fork if you removed the ball from the bell housing? Just spitballing here.

Re: Clutch Confusion
52Carl #1331282 Sat Oct 26 2019 01:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 184
G
Shop Shark
Carl,

What I was thinking of trying is to remove 5 of the 6 bolts that hold the clutch cover in place and loosen the 6th bolt. With the loose bolt positioned at 12:00, I could swing the clutch cover and friction disk to the side and make enough room to install the clutch fork.

What worries me is if I do that, will I have enough room to properly install the release bearing (throwout bearing)? Since it appears that the extra thickness of the heavy duty flywheel is eating up so much space, will the release bearing essentially be engaged all of the time?

I really have nothing to lose mocking this up, since I have to remove the clutch cover anyways. I'll just take a few minutes and see how everything lines up. If it does not appear to be workable, I'll remove the clutch assembly and heavy duty flywheel and move to the flywheel that is in the engine that came with the truck. I might try activating the old 6V starter that's on that engine and see if it works. If it does, then I'll likely just stick with that starter since it already pairs with that flywheel. All I would need to have done is to have the flywheel resurfaced and buy the correct clutch assembly. If I end up going with that flywheel, I'll post in the parts for sale section to sell the heavy duty flywheel. Surely someone could use it....


Mike

1953 3100
1994 Chevy 1500 (Donated to charity 2016)


My Photobucket Pics

My Restoration Adventure Blog
Re: Clutch Confusion
Gray_Ghost #1331403 Sun Oct 27 2019 05:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 184
G
Shop Shark
UPDATE:

I did the mock up today by removing 5 of the 6 bolts on the clutch cover and loosening the 6th bolt, which was at the 12:00 position. That allowed me to swing the clutch cover and disk to the passenger side of the engine and gave me just enough wiggle room to get the clutch fork into position on the stud. Once it was seated on the stud, the clutch cover could be correctly positioned and the remaining bolts installed. I then did a test fit of the throwout bearing. The only way that I could get the throwout bearing to seat in the clutch fork was to "snug it up" against the clutch cover fingers.

DISCLAIMER: I have no experience in this. None. I do not know what is right and what is wrong. I'm learning all of this as I go along and this is new territory for me. So I'm counting on someone to help me learn. Is it acceptable to have constant contact between the throwout bearing and the clutch cover fingers? If so, how do you tell if it is too much pressure? If it is unacceptable to have constant contact, then party over for this flywheel.

Thanks is advance for helping me to learn.


Mike

1953 3100
1994 Chevy 1500 (Donated to charity 2016)


My Photobucket Pics

My Restoration Adventure Blog
Re: Clutch Confusion
Gray_Ghost #1331410 Sun Oct 27 2019 07:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 843
P
AD Addict
It’s definitely not alright to have the throwout bearing riding on the clutch fingers. The bearing is designed to totally disengage from the clutch fingers. That would surely wear out the throwout bearing prematurely and more than likely cause the bearing to make noise.


Phil

1952 Chevrolet 3100
Project Journals
‘59 235 & hydraulic lifters
“Three on the Tree” & 4:11 torque tube
12v w/ Alternator
Re: Clutch Confusion
Phak1 #1331413 Sun Oct 27 2019 07:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 184
G
Shop Shark
Phil,

Thanks for letting me know. I guessed that would be the case, but needed someone who knew to confirm what I was thinking. I'll disassemble everything next weekend and likely post an ad in the parts for sale section. I've got a really nice, heavy duty flywheel that will be going on sale! Too bad it couldn't fit in my 53, I should have been more diligent about verifying the part number before I bought it. Lesson learned.


Mike

1953 3100
1994 Chevy 1500 (Donated to charity 2016)


My Photobucket Pics

My Restoration Adventure Blog
Re: Clutch Confusion
Gray_Ghost #1331415 Sun Oct 27 2019 07:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,631
E
Shop Shark
That is the same reason not to sit at a red light with the clutch pedal in, put in neutral and let the pedal out.

Ed


'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires.
'47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle.
'54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed.
'55 GMC 370 w/270, 420 4 speed, grain, dump bed truck from ND. Works OK.
Re: Clutch Confusion
Gray_Ghost #1332882 Thu Nov 07 2019 04:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 184
G
Shop Shark
Hi Everyone,

Final update to close out the thread. I removed the original 1953 flywheel from the dead engine that was in the truck when I bought it. I found a local machine shop and had it cleaned and resurfaced (pic below). I bought the correct 9" clutch from the nearby flaps and it all went together easily. The clutch fork and throwout bearing all have plenty of clearance to fully disengage when not in use (pic below). Bottom line, using the 1953 specific parts is what I needed to do. Using alternate parts, that may or may not work wasted my time and money. Lesson learned. The last pic is the fully assembled replacement engine and transmission ready for installation into the truck. Hoping to do that this weekend!

The replacement engine is one that I salvaged from a local junkyard and is from a 1961 Impala. It was originally set up for the cast iron powerglide transmission. It runs well on the test stand, although it does smoke a little until it warms up.

Attached Files
20191106_115610.jpg (103.1 KB, 70 downloads)
20191106_115910.jpg (238.64 KB, 70 downloads)
20191101_161752.jpg (164.02 KB, 48 downloads)
Last edited by Gray_Ghost; Thu Nov 07 2019 05:30 PM. Reason: Attached wrong flywheel pic on first try.

Mike

1953 3100
1994 Chevy 1500 (Donated to charity 2016)


My Photobucket Pics

My Restoration Adventure Blog
Re: Clutch Confusion
Gray_Ghost #1332883 Thu Nov 07 2019 04:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,471
ace skiver
Mike,

This has been a long post, so this question might not be necessary (sorry): I think you posted that this engine came from a Powerglide-equipped car? Does it still have the hydraulic lifters (they were standard equipment in all non-Corvette 235s)?


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com [1954advance-design.com]
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban [stovebolt.com] - part of the family for 49 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic [1954advance-design.com] - part of the family for 15 years
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engines are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler. [chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com]
Re: Clutch Confusion
tclederman #1332886 Thu Nov 07 2019 04:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 184
G
Shop Shark
Tim,

Yes, it still has the hydraulic lifters. When it runs, it sounds like a car engine. Meaning no clicking. The drawback in using a car engine is that I'll have to drill the holes for the front motor mount and have to attach the bolts from the bottom instead of how it is normally done. If I ever rebuild this engine, I'll get the front motor mount installed the normal way. For now, I just need the truck to move in and out of the garage on its own, so that I can work on it in the driveway (more space and less likelihood of welding sparks burning down my house...!) smile


Mike

1953 3100
1994 Chevy 1500 (Donated to charity 2016)


My Photobucket Pics

My Restoration Adventure Blog
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