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inner/outer cowl seperator
#1330521 Sun Oct 20 2019 01:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 200
M
Shop Shark
Finally getting back to my 1953 half ton cab. Got side tracked putting up a new 4 post lift. In between the inner and outer cowl side panels there is a piece that I'll call a divider. the bottom of it sits just in front of the lower door hinge pillar. It makes a big sweeping curve upward and toward the front. I guess that it keeps a proper space between the inner and outer side panels. It probably also keeps mud, sludge and crap from getting trapped up between the panels. My question is: How and where is it to be positioned. I am assuming that it tack welds to the inner panel first, and then the outer cowl side panel probably tack welds to it last. Those are guesses on my part. If I'm right, what is the proper exact location, or position for it? The original piece was missing from both sides of my cab, so I have nothing to go by except hopefully common sense. I looked at the assembly manual. It shows the piece, but I didn't remember seeing anything that told about locating or positioning. Help appreciated as always.

Re: inner/outer cowl seperator
Mike Burns #1330539 Sun Oct 20 2019 05:14 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,609
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
I still have to install those on my cab. I would guess that the best way to locate it is to line it up with the outer cowl panels. The bolts that hold the fenders on go thru the cowl and also thru the inner-to-outer cowl piece you're referring to.

They were originally spot welded in place, so the sequence would need to be so that there's access for the spot welder tangs. Not sure at the moment what that sequence would be, other than outer cowl and inner cowl to the door pillar, then the inner-to-outer cowl piece. If the floorboard/firewall is in place, I don't think a spot welder would be able to get to the inner cowl to weld that piece in place, but plug welds could work after the fact.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: inner/outer cowl seperator
Mike Burns #1330543 Sun Oct 20 2019 05:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,698
B
Shop Shark
Just so you are aware this is a notoriously ill-fitting piece requiring extensive hand fitting. It will weld where you can find alignment. Notice the formed channels and how far off they are, you will need to grind and even section them to get a decent fit. Here are some pictures of mine which may help with the sequence question (my approach).
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/8129112456/in/album-72157631867396207/

Re: inner/outer cowl seperator
Mike Burns #1330564 Sun Oct 20 2019 08:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,393
5
Master Gabster
This is called the inner-to-outer cowl panel. As Brad stated, the reproduction part is ill-fitting. It is the most ill-fitting reproduction part made for these trucks in my opinion. At best, it represents an amalgamation of scrap sheet metal which, if separated completely, is enough sheet metal to do the job.
I wish that I could offer some specific instructions for the easiest way to separate it and weld it together to make it work, but there is a safety mechanism built into the human brain which protects one from extreme traumatic experiences such as this one. For that, I am very thankful.
Carl

Re: inner/outer cowl seperator
Mike Burns #1330566 Sun Oct 20 2019 09:04 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,609
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Looking at Brad's photos, it would seem the major locating point would be the bolted connection at the front of the rocker panels (and parking brake pedal support on the driver's side.) Most everything else is going to be loosey-goosey. I've heard what Carl is saying before, but I'm not skeered. grin If need be, I can whack that sucker apart and put it back together again. I even have some sheet metal that I could use to make my own. I'll see how it goes. Hopefully getting to that soon.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: inner/outer cowl seperator
Mike Burns #1330587 Sun Oct 20 2019 11:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 9,393
5
Master Gabster
Kevin has spunk. Spunk is dearly needed for this task.

Re: inner/outer cowl seperator
Mike Burns #1331628 Mon Oct 28 2019 09:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 200
M
Shop Shark
Hey guys, I'm still struggling with this. I got sidetracked with inlaw family issues, and am just getting back to it. Brad's photos are wonderful and helpful. I know I'm looking pretty stupid here, but here's why I'm having trouble. It seems that the common reference point is the large hole where the parking brake rod runs through. this hole exists in the rocker panel, the inner to outer cowl center spacer, and the park brake floor bracket. None of these are in place in my cab. If any one of those was in place, I could figure it out. So here's what I think I need in order to move forward. Is the front curved edge of the inner to outer divider supposed to be flush with the front curved edge of the outer side cowl panel? Question # 2, the rear of my rocker panel has a tab that is probably 3 or 4 inches long. I assume that this must fit into a slot in the lower lock side pillar. If this is the case, then does the remainder of the rear of the rocker butt up against the lock side pillar. If so, then this will let me get the park brake rod hole very close to correct.

Re: inner/outer cowl seperator
Mike Burns #1331687 Tue Oct 29 2019 02:04 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,609
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
I'm in the same boat, but haven't been able to tackle it yet.

The rocker panel (I'm assuming you have a repop one) goes past the B (lock) pillar. It mates up with the inner rear cab corner. What I plan on doing is using the parking brake support bracket that bolts to the floor toe board, clamping that in place and locating the rocker, which lines up with the floor behind the toe board. Where those intersect should locate the large hole for the parking brake rod. I don't think that the front curved portion is necessarily flush with the outer cowl panel. If you still have the holes for the floor windlace cover screws, they should match up with notches in the rocker panel where it mates with the floor. I'm not sure the notches on the repop rockers are that close though.

Let us know how it goes.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: inner/outer cowl seperator
klhansen #1331749 Tue Oct 29 2019 03:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 200
M
Shop Shark
Everything that I have for that area are repops.. My rocker, cowl divider, and inner & outer cowls are all repops. My floor and toe panel are also repops. I still have what's left of a park brake support bracket, but my new toe panel doesn't give me any clue as to where to bolt or clamp it. I have repeatedly studied the factory assembly manual, and while it is extremely helpful, it has not given me any help in this area. If I knew exactly how to position the divider between cowl panels, that would solve it, but I don't. If I had a way to position the rocker, or bracket, or cowl divider perfectly, then everything else would fall into place. Oh well, I guess that I'll just try to move forward and hope that common sense and thinking will prevail. I have a new lower hinge pillar welded in place, and I'm pretty confident in my measurements regarding it. If I had a measurement from it to the large hole, that would be wonderful too. I realize that I'm looking stupid here, but I have nothing to use as a reference point.

Re: inner/outer cowl seperator
Mike Burns #1331787 Tue Oct 29 2019 06:16 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,609
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Here's' the best I can do for you right now. On the RIGHT side of my cab, I set the rocker in place, located with the screw holes in the floor matched up as close as I could get them to the notches in the repop rocker. I measured 5-1/8 inches from the rear of the A-pillar (right at the rocker - the A-pillar is farther forward to the outside of the cab) to the center of the big hole in the rocker. Since both of my repop rockers have the large hole, I'm ASSUMING that they're in the same position between right and left sides.
I have the same issue as you on the toe board on the driver's side, so can't line up the park brake bracket there yet. But you may be able to project over what's left of your kick panel far enough to locate the park brake bracket. I'd suggest clamping a piece of plywood to what's left of your toe board to get a location for the park brake bracket to verify that dimension I gave you on the right side. That's what I plan on doing when I get to that point.
BTW, the Cab dimension checking sheets in the FAM allow a tolerance of 0.02 inches (just under 1/32 inch)

If anyone with a complete cab could provide the actual dimension to locate the large hole in the rockers, that would sure help Mike (and myself). The FAM has no mention of that dimension, or anything to do with the floor assembly, at least that I could find.

Last edited by klhansen; Tue Oct 29 2019 06:26 PM.

Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
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