The Stovebolt Page Forums Home | FAQ | Forum | Swap Meet | Gallery | Tech Tips | Events | Features | Search | Hoo-Ya Shop
Work those trucks!




Share what you're up to this summer!

Stovebolt Site Search
 
Old Truck Calendars
Months of truck photos!
Nothing like an old truck calendar

Stovebolt Calendars

Check for details!


Who's Online Now
8 registered members (mo2cyl, panic, Shakey61, 66flea, Sedgewick, 1 invisible), 355 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums48
Topics116,548
Posts927,145
Members42,470
Most Online940
Apr 5th, 2017
Image Posting Policy
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: 1952 3100 Dual Master Cylinder Conversion [Re: ssaxman] #1325856 Thu Sep 12 2019 01:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 415
S
Skooter Offline
Shop Shark
I've kept original drum/drum front and rear. Zero issues due to locating dual master under floorboard. Seems to be about same level as the wheel cylinders, maybe.

1. Shot from underneath shows old floorboard hole in front of new master. Tee also visible at bottom of pic.
2. Line from master back port goes into left side of tee. Lines from right side of tee and bottom of tee goes to the two front brakes. Line from master front port goes to rear brakes.
3. Shows the extra floor hole cut for new master. Master lid can lift out through the 3" hole pretty easily.(use a big syringe or turkey baster for easy fill) My oldest ugly floormat goes against floorboard. On top of that is sound/heat mat. Those two were cut to fold over and weighted down for easy access. Nice floormat on top.
4. Last pic shows my bench bleeding setup. Be advised the reservoirs are much smaller than modern disc masters, so FILL OFTEN as you bleed wheel cylinders. I ran them dry on first bleed because they're so small! Had to remove the master and bench bleed all over again. dang

Attached Files
IMG_0927.JPEG (33.4 KB, 129 downloads)
IMG_4049.JPEG (28.9 KB, 132 downloads)
IMG_0940.JPEG (45.78 KB, 128 downloads)
IMG_0920.JPEG (39.49 KB, 122 downloads)
Last edited by Skooter; Thu Sep 12 2019 01:59 AM.

1952 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
Dalton Highway survivor
www.truckwithaheart.com
Re: 1952 3100 Dual Master Cylinder Conversion [Re: Skooter] #1325864 Thu Sep 12 2019 02:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 29
S
ssaxman Offline OP
Wrench Fetcher
Originally Posted by Skooter
I've kept original drum/drum front and rear. Zero issues due to locating dual master under floorboard. Seems to be about same level as the wheel cylinders, maybe.

1. Shot from underneath shows old floorboard hole in front of new master. Tee also visible at bottom of pic.
2. Line from master back port goes into left side of tee. Lines from right side of tee and bottom of tee goes to the two front brakes. Line from master front port goes to rear brakes.
3. Shows the extra floor hole cut for new master. Master lid can lift out through the 3" hole pretty easily.(use a big syringe or turkey baster for easy fill) My oldest ugly floormat goes against floorboard. On top of that is sound/heat mat. Those two were cut to fold over and weighted down for easy access. Nice floormat on top.
4. Last pic shows my bench bleeding setup. Be advised the reservoirs are much smaller than modern disc masters, so FILL OFTEN as you bleed wheel cylinders. I ran them dry on first bleed because they're so small! Had to remove the master and bench bleed all over again. dang


This is awesome, Skooter! Thanks so much for posting the pics and descriptions. This will help a LOT! I'm hoping to find the time to get this completed sometime this month or next and will definitely post some pics of my install. Thanks to everyone who's replied; the help is much appreciated!

Re: 1952 3100 Dual Master Cylinder Conversion [Re: ssaxman] #1325881 Thu Sep 12 2019 07:01 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,465
K
klhansen Offline
Shop Shark
Looking at scooter's install photos, I'm wondering what would prevent moving the master farther forward to use the original fill hole in the floor. Maybe it's because the dual master mount flange is wider than the old master where the original bracket is.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos
Re: 1952 3100 Dual Master Cylinder Conversion [Re: ssaxman] #1325882 Thu Sep 12 2019 09:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 69
A
ASU Offline
Wrench Fetcher
maybe I am missing something...On Skooter's set up, If there is 1 line coming from the master, which tee's and goes to the front and back brakes, Isn't this the same as the original system, only with a different MC? 1 leak anywhere in the system would render all the breaks useless. The purpose of a dual reservoir system is to separate the front brakes from the back brakes, create 1 reservoir and piping system for the front, and 1 for the back, so you don't lose everything at once.

Jon

Re: 1952 3100 Dual Master Cylinder Conversion [Re: ASU] #1325889 Thu Sep 12 2019 12:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 465
S
showkey Offline
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by ASU
maybe I am missing something...On Skooter's set up, If there is 1 line coming from the master, which tee's and goes to the front and back brakes, Isn't this the same as the original system, only with a different MC? 1 leak anywhere in the system would render all the breaks useless. The purpose of a dual reservoir system is to separate the front brakes from the back brakes, create 1 reservoir and piping system for the front, and 1 for the back, so you don't lose everything at once.

Jon


His step 2 sounds like he has separated the front and rear:

2. Line from master back port goes into left side of tee. Lines from right side of tee and bottom of tee goes to the two front brakes. Line from master front port goes to rear brakes

Last edited by showkey; Thu Sep 12 2019 12:38 PM.
Re: 1952 3100 Dual Master Cylinder Conversion [Re: ssaxman] #1325915 Thu Sep 12 2019 05:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 29
S
ssaxman Offline OP
Wrench Fetcher
Will residual pressure valves be needed when converting to the dual reservoir setup?

Re: 1952 3100 Dual Master Cylinder Conversion [Re: ssaxman] #1325925 Thu Sep 12 2019 07:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 465
S
showkey Offline
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by ssaxman
Will residual pressure valves be needed when converting to the dual reservoir setup?


Depends on the master..........some have the residual valves built in.

Re: 1952 3100 Dual Master Cylinder Conversion [Re: ssaxman] #1325929 Thu Sep 12 2019 08:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,474
5
52Carl Offline
Master Gabster
Originally Posted by ssaxman
Will residual pressure valves be needed when converting to the dual reservoir setup?

That is where the "fun" comes in to play. The stock configuration with the original single master cylinder incorporates different sizes of brake lines (on some models) in order to supply front and rear wheel cylinders with the appropriate balance.
With adding a dual master which is not designed to work on our trucks, you now have to rely on seat of the pants information to determine if you need to add a proportioning valve to make it work.
Then while trying to determine if you have a front-to-back brake balance problem, you won't know for sure whether the imbalance is actually caused the dual master, or due to new brake shoes which are not yet arced to mach the contour of the drums yet, or improper brake shoe adjustment.
A set of challenges, but doable over time. Just don't do any tailgating in the meantime.
Carl

Re: 1952 3100 Dual Master Cylinder Conversion [Re: 52Carl] #1325933 Thu Sep 12 2019 09:19 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,465
K
klhansen Offline
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by 52Carl
The stock configuration with the original single master cylinder incorporates different sizes of brake lines (on some models) in order to supply front and rear wheel cylinders with the appropriate balance.

Sorry, but line sizes have absolutely no relationship to balance between front and rear. It's strictly controlled by the ratio of master cylinder and wheel cylinder diameters.Differences in line flexibility would be the only thing that would impact balance and there's no real flexibility in the lines. Unless one of the lines is essentially microscopic (and they're not) it would not be able to restrict flow of the fluid going to the wheel cylinders.
A dual master cylinder without a proportioning valve and the same size bore on both circuits would work just like the original single reservoir master.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos
Re: 1952 3100 Dual Master Cylinder Conversion [Re: showkey] #1325953 Thu Sep 12 2019 11:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 415
S
Skooter Offline
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by showkey
[quote=ASU]maybe I am missing something...On Skooter's set up, If there is 1 line coming from the master, which tee's and goes to the front and back brakes, Isn't this the same as the original system, only with a different MC? 1 leak anywhere in the system would render all the breaks useless. The purpose of a dual reservoir system is to separate the front brakes from the back brakes, create 1 reservoir and piping system for the front, and 1 for the back, so you don't lose everything at once.

Jon

His step 2 sounds like he has separated the front and rear:

2. Line from master back port goes into left side of tee. Lines from right side of tee and bottom of tee goes to the two front brakes. Line from master front port goes to rear brakes


Showkey is correct thumbs_up

"On Skooter's set up, If there is 1 line coming from the master, which tee's and goes to the front and back brakes..."
No. One master port goes to the tee, then tees to both front brakes (left and right). The other master port goes to the rears.


1952 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
Dalton Highway survivor
www.truckwithaheart.com
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  SWEET 

Home | FAQ | Forum | Swap Meet | Gallery | Tech Tips | Events | Features | Search | Hoo-Ya Shop
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3