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Woah! She’s slow. #1309591
Sun May 05 2019 01:51 AM
Sun May 05 2019 01:51 AM
S
Skidmarks  Offline OP
Shop Shark
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 107
Tampa Bay FL
My 9 year project hit a major milestone today. I got her out on the open road for the first time.
1958 Apache 235/3 speed, stock wheels and tires.
At 45 mph she was screaming loud. I still had pedal left, but it sounded like it was winding out fairly high. I don’t have a tach, so not sure exactly how high.

I’ve seen threads about these trucks being slow, and I think it’s going to end up with getting a different rear end. I built the truck to be stock, but st 40-45 mph I’m worried about getting rear ended!

Anyone have some wisdom to share?


1958 Chevy Apache Fleetside/235/3 sp
Pictures at http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=317454&id=855355703&l=0a0f773195
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309601
Sun May 05 2019 02:45 AM
Sun May 05 2019 02:45 AM
D
Don huffer  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 376
Cape Coral Florida
I’ve got a 49 3/4 ton. It had a 5.14 gear in it. There were three ratios sold for these rearends. I swapped the pumpkin for a 4.10 and gained 6-7 mph. But I don’t know what you have in a 58. If it’s an Eaton HO52. It’s an easy swap. That axle was used from 47 to 1972.

Don


Can’t begin to tell you how much I hate the name Stovebolt.
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309607
Sun May 05 2019 03:03 AM
Sun May 05 2019 03:03 AM
M
Mike B  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,711
Hughesville, MD
What series is your truck? Just saying "Apache" doesn't tell us much...it could be a 1/2, 3/4 or 1 ton.

Mike B smile

Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309635
Sun May 05 2019 12:09 PM
Sun May 05 2019 12:09 PM
S
Skidmarks  Offline OP
Shop Shark
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 107
Tampa Bay FL
Sorry, it’s a 1/2 ton swb fleetside


1958 Chevy Apache Fleetside/235/3 sp
Pictures at http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=317454&id=855355703&l=0a0f773195
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309645
Sun May 05 2019 01:29 PM
Sun May 05 2019 01:29 PM
T
Tommy  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,238
Metairie,La.
Yep, they sound like that. Screamin!!! Probably has a 3:90 gear in the rearend, get a tach and see what it says it's . You should be able to go 55/60 without any difficulty. These old trucks are not like the new ones quiet and comfortable. You drive these not ride in them.


Tommy
59 apache 1/2t
261 short stepside
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309648
Sun May 05 2019 01:48 PM
Sun May 05 2019 01:48 PM
S
Skidmarks  Offline OP
Shop Shark
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 107
Tampa Bay FL
Yeah sounds like the darn pushrods are going to launch out of the hood!


1958 Chevy Apache Fleetside/235/3 sp
Pictures at http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=317454&id=855355703&l=0a0f773195
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309655
Sun May 05 2019 02:15 PM
Sun May 05 2019 02:15 PM
C
cmayna  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,908
Menlo Park, Ca
....and the faster you get your rig going, the better the brakes need to be. I swapped the 4.11's in my rig for some 3.55's. " Good move" says my truck. Yes for a tach. 60mph at 2500 rpm.


Craig's '50 Chevy 3100 5 window
My truck
If I'm not working on my truck or VW camper, I'm fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309657
Sun May 05 2019 02:16 PM
Sun May 05 2019 02:16 PM
G
Grigg  Offline
.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,964
Lexington, VA
Are the valves adjusted properly? That has a big influence on how it sounds.


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309667
Sun May 05 2019 02:55 PM
Sun May 05 2019 02:55 PM
H
Hotrod Lincoln  Offline
Boltergeist
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 18,572
Dellrose, TN
Just for grins, take the fan off and make a highway-speed cruise for a few miles. You don't need a fan above 30 MPH, and I'll wager the engine won't sound half as stressed once the fan noise is out of the picture. Any engine speed below 2500-3000 RPM isn't going to hurt a good-condition 235, even if it is a little noisy.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309702
Sun May 05 2019 06:52 PM
Sun May 05 2019 06:52 PM
S
Skidmarks  Offline OP
Shop Shark
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 107
Tampa Bay FL
The valves are good I checked them already. I just noticed that the pinion seal is leaking. I think the decision has been made.

Does anyone have suggestions on a good axle upgrade?

Last edited by Skidmarks; Sun May 05 2019 06:52 PM.

1958 Chevy Apache Fleetside/235/3 sp
Pictures at http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=317454&id=855355703&l=0a0f773195
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309710
Sun May 05 2019 07:57 PM
Sun May 05 2019 07:57 PM
W
WE b OLD  Online
Master Gabster
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,341
marion, in. usa
I am not the best person to advise anyone just ask around but in my 54 1/2 ton, I have a 1979 Nova rear end with 2.73 gears and an s10 5 speed. But I live in Indiana and it is usually flat and it works for me. I have been down through the Smokeys and on the interstate, it does fine but on back roads, it takes a little shifting. Best of luck.


Ron, The Computer Greek
I love therefore I am.

1960 MGA Roadster Sold 7/18/2017
1954 3100 Chevy truck in the Gallery
2015 GMC terrain.
Pix on Photobucket
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309731
Sun May 05 2019 10:14 PM
Sun May 05 2019 10:14 PM
5
52Carl  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,969
Virginia
With a 3 on the tree, I would be looking for a 3.73 out of a '67-'70 half ton truck. Its a 12 bolt rear end. You will have to weld on some spring perches.
Any ratio numerically less in number (like say, a 3.55) would be a sluggish in first gear under any kind of an incline.
Carl

Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309750
Sun May 05 2019 11:55 PM
Sun May 05 2019 11:55 PM
L
LONGBOX55  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 8,490
DANVILLE IL
Another option would be to swap the transmission for an overdrive unit instead of swapping the rear axle. The SM319 was an option on these trucks from the factory, so they are a direct bolt in, even using one from a Tri-5 passenger car. I have one in mine, and 70+ is no problem for the 235.


Bill Burmeister
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309754
Mon May 06 2019 12:09 AM
Mon May 06 2019 12:09 AM
W
Wally / Montana  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,264
The Last Best Place
When the question of top speed comes up, I always ask myself about braking.

I had a serious case of drum-brake fade in our '65 Chev on I-80 in Wyoming one time (~1969) when a big buck deer, trying to block most of the 2 lanes, stared me down. I couldn't stop but thankfully I could steer a bit. Drifted right by him.

45 MPH is great for me.


1948 3/4-Ton 5-Window Flatbed Chevrolet

27 Years of Daily Driving. Now with a '61 261, 848 head, Rochester Monojet carb, 4.10 rear, dual reservoir MC, Bendix up front, 235/85R16 tires, 12-volt w/alternator, electric wipers and a modern radio in the glove box.
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: LONGBOX55] #1309759
Mon May 06 2019 01:21 AM
Mon May 06 2019 01:21 AM
S
Skidmarks  Offline OP
Shop Shark
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 107
Tampa Bay FL

I’m not familiar with the sm 319. Does it shift the same as a 3 speed? How do you shift it to overdrive? Do you know if a driveshaft mod is required? Thank you for the help!


1958 Chevy Apache Fleetside/235/3 sp
Pictures at http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=317454&id=855355703&l=0a0f773195
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309766
Mon May 06 2019 01:42 AM
Mon May 06 2019 01:42 AM
J
Jeff Ogden  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,292
Dayton Ohio
I thought the same on my first drive in my 37,that problem has been solved with a T-5 and 3.55 gears.

Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309770
Mon May 06 2019 02:00 AM
Mon May 06 2019 02:00 AM
L
LONGBOX55  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 8,490
DANVILLE IL
The SM 319 is a variant of the SM 318 3 speed that is standard in the '55-'66 trucks. Both transmissions also saw use in GM passenger cars in the same time period. The SM 319 is setup with a Borg-Warner overdrive unit in place of the tailshaft and its housing.
The main part of the transmission is the same as the standard 3 speed, so the shifter hookup and operation is identical. The overdrive is, if installed as the factory did it, shifted electrically via a solenoid on the housing. The shifting is done automatically by lifting off the throttle at approximately 28 mph (that speed can vary depending on rear ratio and tire size), which is when the contacts in the governor close. Overdrive can be used in any forward gear. There is also a manual lockout cable which locks the overdrive, making the transmission operate as a normal 3 speed.
If you use a transmission from a '55/56/57 Chevrolet Passenger car or '55-'59 Truck, no driveshaft mods will be required. The only change, depending on what the trans came from, would be to swap the shift cover out as Passenger and '55 6 cylinder Truck versions are different from '55-'59 Truck.
Here's the shop manual section from the '55 manual can explain things a little better on operation http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1955truck2/55ctsm0715.htm
I've had one in mine for the last 20 years, it's probably the best thing I did to it.


Bill Burmeister
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309787
Mon May 06 2019 04:22 AM
Mon May 06 2019 04:22 AM
D
Dusty  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,030
Canterbury , NewZealand
40 - 45 mph in my truck with standard (1956) 3.9 rear is about 1800 rpm . A standard 235 1/2 ton should cruise easy at 60mph , it will go faster , but your mileage will go away smile

If you have too much noise , determine where it is coming from and fix that . I predict it may be a cheaper option .

Jerrys "pull the fan off" is a good way to isolate noise issues.

Consider taller tyres as a small gearing adjustment .

I agree with the brake comments .

Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1309813
Mon May 06 2019 03:14 PM
Mon May 06 2019 03:14 PM
S
Skidmarks  Offline OP
Shop Shark
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 107
Tampa Bay FL
Great info guys I really appreciate it. Love the idea of the sm319. I’ll look into finding one. I did the brakes with a hidden booster and discs on the front so she stops great. Not that I want to go that fast, I just want to go with the flow of traffic.

Last edited by Skidmarks; Mon May 06 2019 03:15 PM.

1958 Chevy Apache Fleetside/235/3 sp
Pictures at http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=317454&id=855355703&l=0a0f773195
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1310130
Thu May 09 2019 02:44 PM
Thu May 09 2019 02:44 PM
C
cmayna  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,908
Menlo Park, Ca
Took my truck out for a spin yesterday. With 3.55 gears in back behind a SM420, my RPM's are 2200 at 55 MPH, 2600 at 60 MPH.


Craig's '50 Chevy 3100 5 window
My truck
If I'm not working on my truck or VW camper, I'm fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1310158
Thu May 09 2019 06:17 PM
Thu May 09 2019 06:17 PM
E
EchoBravoSierra  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 173
Spring, TX
You can get a 3.38 gear for the '55-'59 (and up through '64?) half ton rear end, but I'd suspect you'd be feeling slow from starts with that versus slow up top with what you've got. I'd be willing to bet, based on my experience with my '50 half ton 3spd/4.11 and 216, that you aren't actually pulling as many rpms as it sounds like it is at speed.

Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1310168
Thu May 09 2019 07:46 PM
Thu May 09 2019 07:46 PM
B
BC59  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 498
N.E. Oregon
'63 is a different axle.
3.90:1 was stock.
I know you can cruise 65mph all day with a 235 & 3.90 rear axle because I drove To MA & back to OR several years ago. with no issues. Changed oil on the east coast before heading back. Still running same engine now, doesn't use oil. If it's in decent condition & valves are adjusted will not be an issue. Used to run 80 MPH with it back in high school (1970s) road racing a buddy with a Jeep wagoner hurricane 6.


BC
1960 Chevy C10 driver
1949 GMC 250 project in waiting
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1310216
Fri May 10 2019 01:02 AM
Fri May 10 2019 01:02 AM
B
bztguy  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 243
Oregon, IL
I replaced the Eaton HO52 rear end in my 49' 3600 with a Dana 60 from a 69' F250. Almost exact same width backing plate to backing plate. I had the drive shaft shortened by about 2.5 inches and a yoke welded on to mate up to the Dana 60. It has a 3.73 ratio along with 29" diameter tires and I can hit 60MPH at 2500 RPM with the stock 4 speed transmission.

Last edited by bztguy; Fri May 10 2019 01:03 AM.

1949 Chevy 3600
1975 W-25 Hurst Olds
1991 Chevy Silverado
1970 GMC 1/2 ton Fleetside

I'm a GM man!
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: bztguy] #1310279
Fri May 10 2019 03:47 PM
Fri May 10 2019 03:47 PM
B
BC59  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 498
N.E. Oregon
Skidmarks rig is a 1/2 ton


BC
1960 Chevy C10 driver
1949 GMC 250 project in waiting
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1310281
Fri May 10 2019 04:07 PM
Fri May 10 2019 04:07 PM
G
Grigg  Offline
.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,964
Lexington, VA
Axle ratio, tire diameter, and engine RPM are useful for comparison regardless of truck model.


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1310283
Fri May 10 2019 05:11 PM
Fri May 10 2019 05:11 PM
H
Hotrod Lincoln  Offline
Boltergeist
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 18,572
Dellrose, TN
Back in the mid-1960's I ran a 58 Chevy 2 door sedan with a 235, 3 speed, and a 3.70 rear end. It had low profile 14" tires on it, standard for that model. I had no trouble keeping up with traffic at 65-70 MPH, and the mid-80's were not too difficult. With 3.90 gears and the same 1:1 high gear ratio in the transmission, a bone-stock pickup with a 235 should be able to do similar speeds because of the taller tires.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1310423
Sat May 11 2019 11:33 PM
Sat May 11 2019 11:33 PM
G
Gord&Fran  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 570
Mill Bay, BC, Canada
Today, I stuck the GPS onto the windshield and took the truck out on the highway. At 90 KPH (about 55 MPH), the speedometer indicated 40 MPH; this speedometer error is pretty close to what I calculated it would be. Engine RPM is about 1750 at this speed in 4th gear.

Rear axle ratio is 2.41. Tires are 767 revs/mile.


Gord
----
1954 1/2 ton 235 4 speed
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1311226
Mon May 20 2019 01:44 AM
Mon May 20 2019 01:44 AM
S
Skidmarks  Offline OP
Shop Shark
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 107
Tampa Bay FL
So I was looking into a different differential. Will a new ring gear and pinion work? Are these old rear ends compatible with a new ring gear swap or am I wasting my energy?


1958 Chevy Apache Fleetside/235/3 sp
Pictures at http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=317454&id=855355703&l=0a0f773195
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: Skidmarks] #1311229
Mon May 20 2019 02:03 AM
Mon May 20 2019 02:03 AM
tclederman  Online
Boltergeist
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 27,925
Jarvisburg, NC
"1958 Apache 235/3 speed . . .
Will a new ring gear and pinion work?"

As EBS posted above

If you go that way, you might want to also use this installation kit.


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban - part of the family for 50 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic - part of the family for 14 years
Z-series (54/55) GMC 350 (2-ton) COE - now part of Dave's family
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engine are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler.
Re: Woah! She’s slow. [Re: tclederman] #1312811
Sat Jun 01 2019 07:52 PM
Sat Jun 01 2019 07:52 PM
E
EchoBravoSierra  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 173
Spring, TX
Originally Posted by tclederman
"1958 Apache 235/3 speed . . .
Will a new ring gear and pinion work?"

As EBS posted above

If you go that way, you might want to also use this installation kit.


You can get the install kit MUCH cheaper at Jeg's.

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