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1950 4400 #1309123
Wed May 01 2019 01:12 AM
Wed May 01 2019 01:12 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
Hi guys
I joined this forum many years ago but I am a much bigger reader than a poster. But the time has finally come. I was able to acquire a 1950 4400. It is in very rough shape right now, and I’m not entirely sure what direction I’m going to be going in on it. The engine is currently stuck but the clutch and transmission seem to be in good shape. The wheels turn freely and the brakes kinda work. There isn’t any usable wiring left at all. My plan for now is to try getting the engine free. If I can get it moving then I will start replacing ignition and fuel systems to try getting it running.
My first question it how do I identify what engine I have ? And how do I identify the type of carb is on it.

I’m not all that computer savvy and I don’t have a computer at all. I use my phone and my iPad. I know many of my questions have probably already been asked and answered but I never seem to be able to find what I’m looking for! Also if anyone can point me in the right direction I would like to post pictures if possible.
More to come !!
Thank you !
Dan

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309144
Wed May 01 2019 03:41 AM
Wed May 01 2019 03:41 AM
R
Rich'sToys  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,343
Janesville, Mn
Welcome!
For info on posting pictures look in the lower left corner of this page.


Rich

'47 Loadmaster

I got a pair of those new Memory Foam shoe inserts. Hasn't helped much- When I walk to another room, I still can't remember why.






Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309148
Wed May 01 2019 04:06 AM
Wed May 01 2019 04:06 AM
H
Hotrod Lincoln  Offline
Boltergeist
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 18,565
Dellrose, TN
Find the number that's stamped (not cast) on the machined pad just to the rear of the distributor and post that for us. Most likely a 1950 big truck would have left the factory with a spray-oiler 235 engine, but there's no telling what might have been installed since then. If it's got a sheet metal side cover on the passenger's side that extends up over the cylinder head and the spark plugs and 2 bolts in the center of the valve cover, it's either a 216 or an early 235. A short side cover and 4 bolts at the edges of the valve cover would probably make it a later model 235. The block casting number down near the fuel pump and the stamping I mentioned before will ID it accurately.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Rich'sToys] #1309165
Wed May 01 2019 10:48 AM
Wed May 01 2019 10:48 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
Thank you I didn’t see that I’ll give posting pictures a try tonight

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309170
Wed May 01 2019 11:46 AM
Wed May 01 2019 11:46 AM
truckernix  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,826
Bracebridge Ontario Canada
Send one of us some photos and we will post them for you. We are always anxious to see photos of these old beauties! My Email is fred.nixon@sympatico.ca


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: truckernix] #1309181
Wed May 01 2019 01:21 PM
Wed May 01 2019 01:21 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
If I can’t figure it out I will but I want to try figuring out how to work it

Attached Files
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309197
Wed May 01 2019 04:31 PM
Wed May 01 2019 04:31 PM
truckernix  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,826
Bracebridge Ontario Canada
Good job, the photos are great! So if that is a US motor, it is a 1950 to 1952, low pressure 235. That motor is unique to those years. In Canada we had 216s of the same design. The truck looks like it wants to do serious work! Congratulations on your new addition.


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309199
Wed May 01 2019 05:01 PM
Wed May 01 2019 05:01 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
The truck served as a sign for a local business for the last 40 years! I’m fairly sure the original engine is in it. It was still running when it became a sign but hasn’t run since the day it was parked around 78-79. I also have a photo copy of the original title issued in 1950.
It is very rough so I plan to just do little things at a time. Starting with getting the engine unstuck. After that I will get the starter rebuilt clean and rebuild the carb and replace the entire ignition system. Then hopefully I will have a runner. Does anyone know if there are print versions of repair manuals available anywhere. I have only been able to find online versions that don’t seem very helpful.
Also here’s a picture of the driver side of the engine

Attached Files
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309250
Thu May 02 2019 08:50 AM
Thu May 02 2019 08:50 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
I wrote another post yesterday with another picture and it never showed up on the thread

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309251
Thu May 02 2019 11:27 AM
Thu May 02 2019 11:27 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
I’ll try it again here’s the driver side of the engine.
The oil cap is missing since who knows when and some mice had taken up residence under the valve cover. So I’m thinking I’m going to pull the head to make sure nothing is in any of the cylinders and see how bad the rust is in there. So are the head bolts reusable?

Attached Files
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309259
Thu May 02 2019 01:55 PM
Thu May 02 2019 01:55 PM
tclederman  Offline
Boltergeist
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 27,912
Jarvisburg, NC
If you want to know the casting year/years, and the original application, post the codes shown on this page:

1. Engine Serial Number
2. Block casting code
3. Block date casting code
4. Head casting code
5. Head date casting code

And the Vehicle Serial Number/ID on the plate on the cab between the driver's side door hinges.


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban - part of the family for 50 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic - part of the family for 14 years
Z-series (54/55) GMC 350 (2-ton) COE - now part of Dave's family
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engine are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler.
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309260
Thu May 02 2019 02:02 PM
Thu May 02 2019 02:02 PM
truckernix  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,826
Bracebridge Ontario Canada
I have the same style motor only it is a Canadian 216. I reuse my head bolts and am careful to watch for any signs of the bolts yielding under torque.


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309262
Thu May 02 2019 02:10 PM
Thu May 02 2019 02:10 PM
truckernix  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,826
Bracebridge Ontario Canada
The detail that identifies your engine is the shape of the head near the plugs. In the photo you can see a bulge in the casting between 1 and 2 plugs. That is distinct to the 1950 to 52 motor and that head doesn’t fit anything els.


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309275
Thu May 02 2019 04:59 PM
Thu May 02 2019 04:59 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
I will start looking for those codes today if I get home early enough I have the vin number on the title (AHEA123590) that’s what is printed on the original title and the current title

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309304
Thu May 02 2019 09:43 PM
Thu May 02 2019 09:43 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
The stamped code on the block behind the distributor is the code that’s listed on the title as the vin AHEA123590 the cast code on the head by the valve cover on the driver side is 3895499 here’s a picture of it.
Where is the block casting code and date located? And where is the head casting date ? It’s greasy and I have to spray with brake cleaner and wire brush it to find casting marks

Attached Files
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309306
Thu May 02 2019 09:44 PM
Thu May 02 2019 09:44 PM
tclederman  Offline
Boltergeist
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 27,912
Jarvisburg, NC
"Where is the block casting code and date located? And where is the head casting date ? "

Are they not in the locations shown in the link that I posted, above?

This should help you decode your engine serial number:
1950 4400
Flint, MI engine plant
Loadmaster 235 Engine with RPO 225

Might the head casting code be 3835499?


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban - part of the family for 50 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic - part of the family for 14 years
Z-series (54/55) GMC 350 (2-ton) COE - now part of Dave's family
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engine are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler.
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309312
Thu May 02 2019 11:20 PM
Thu May 02 2019 11:20 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
It’s certainly possible it’s 383 !! I will clean it up better tomorrow.
I didn’t see the link until you pointed it out will also look for those codes tomorrow. I think I’m going to pull the head this weekend so I will find the head date code when I pull the valve cover

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309317
Thu May 02 2019 11:40 PM
Thu May 02 2019 11:40 PM
truckernix  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,826
Bracebridge Ontario Canada
The 3835499 is the casting number on my 1951 216 head too. It now has a head with the US casting number because my original Canadian head was cracked. There is no date stamped on the head as far as I know.


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309321
Thu May 02 2019 11:52 PM
Thu May 02 2019 11:52 PM
2
2ManyTrucks  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 192
california
head casting 3835499 is used in multiple part numbers and maybe machined differently - swap with caution
head casting 3835499 is used in part # 3835545 for a 235 engine 50-53 in USA, these are likely babbitt 235s
head casting 3835499 is used in part # xxxxxxx also found on Canadian 216 51 engines (block 3695408)
head casting 3835499 is used in part # 3703569 for a USA 54 261 engine


1430s, 1420, 9430
-2MT
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309323
Thu May 02 2019 11:53 PM
Thu May 02 2019 11:53 PM
2
2ManyTrucks  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 192
california
from my head casting notes...
i don't know the specific differences
-s


1430s, 1420, 9430
-2MT
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309328
Fri May 03 2019 12:40 AM
Fri May 03 2019 12:40 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
Also the actual vin tag between the door hinges on the driver side door is long gone. You can see where it was I will take a picture of it tomorrow but there’s 2 holes one is most likely a screw hole the other has the remains of a pop rivet. So the true actual vin will likely never be determined. Unless someone knows of another place that was also marked

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309362
Fri May 03 2019 10:29 AM
Fri May 03 2019 10:29 AM
truckernix  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,826
Bracebridge Ontario Canada
2ManyTrucks,
that is interesting information. The head that I put on my Canadian 216, came off a Canadian car with a 216 motor. Apparently there were times when parts crossed the border to keep production going. The difference in my case is that the intake ports that align with the manifold are the correct size for a 216, not a 235.


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309428
Fri May 03 2019 08:59 PM
Fri May 03 2019 08:59 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
Yikes !!! I hope this doesn’t lead to bigger problems under the head !

Attached Files
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309430
Fri May 03 2019 09:08 PM
Fri May 03 2019 09:08 PM
G
Grigg  Offline
.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,957
Lexington, VA
Don’t spend an unreasonable amount of time or money on it. Plenty of good Stovebolt engines available to swap in there. Later model 235 or better yet a 261 are good ideas.


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309460
Sat May 04 2019 01:44 AM
Sat May 04 2019 01:44 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
Probably great advice ! However this is the engine that my truck was born with. I think I’m not going to stop unless there’s absolutely no hope it.

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309461
Sat May 04 2019 01:50 AM
Sat May 04 2019 01:50 AM
truckernix  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,826
Bracebridge Ontario Canada
I think I see a big truck governor there. I have never seen one before. It is under the carburetor. Maybe someone could fill me in on that.

You made a whole family of mice homeless!


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309467
Sat May 04 2019 02:50 AM
Sat May 04 2019 02:50 AM
G
Grigg  Offline
.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,957
Lexington, VA
It may be the original engine, but still be reasonable about your intentions and options.
Perhaps it cost $3-6,000 to professionally rebuild. Or you may find a good replacement for well under $1,000.

I enjoy seeing all original trucks and restorations, I’m glad some people are that passionate and dedicated. There is a lot to learn from their research and efforts.
I’d also much rather see a good everyday driven truck with slight and or sensible upgrades than a half hearted “original restoration” that actually isn’t original.
Go all the way and be original or be practical (and drive it a whole lot), I don’t see much use for half way in between. I really enjoy driving old trucks, and 100% original isn’t necessary for that. Not saying you can’t drive an original as it is or fully restored to like original because they were new once and perfectly driveable then as now; but consider cost and rewards.

Decide what makes you happy and fix or restore your truck to suit. Also step back and reevaluate that plan a time or two along the way.


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309479
Sat May 04 2019 11:02 AM
Sat May 04 2019 11:02 AM
S
sweepleader  Offline
Wrench Fetcher
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 64
Minnesota
My guess is you will find mouse pee and poop corrosion all the way to the oil pan down the oil drain holes and push rods. The rockers will all be frozen to the shaft, the bolts, push rods, valve springs, keepers and valves will all be corroded beyond use. The valves will likely be stuck tight in the guides. There very likely will be corrosion on the lifters, they may be stuck and the cam likely damaged.

Personally, I would not try too hard to salvage the head, certainly not the valve gear. IF the valves can be driven from the guides, its possible the bare head might be salvaged.

First thing I would do is pull the engine, I would not even think about taking it apart in the truck. To my mind that would be a total waste of time as it will all have to come apart, right down to the bare block. Every part will need to be inspected for rust damage.

There will be a lot of damage. Pretty sad to see that picture.

Last edited by sweepleader; Sat May 04 2019 11:04 AM.

1962 K10 short stepside, much modified for rally
1969 T50 fire truck, nos, needs a few things
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309485
Sat May 04 2019 11:55 AM
Sat May 04 2019 11:55 AM
John Milliman  Offline
Founder/Developer
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,093
St. Mary's Co., MD
Just to echo/footstomp what Grigg said. I tried going the all-original route, too, once ...

The good news is that you have cured any boredom problem you may have had for the forseeable future -- looks like many, many,many hours of fun there.... smile

The best advice I've heard in situations like yours is to stop at this point and check with your State DMV to see what will be required to title and register this truck. Do not listen to anecdotes or stories or advice or any of it from anyone other than the professional staff at your DMV. Their answers will help you decide how much further you want to go with this project. You will no doubt have a bit of a project just to get the truck titled. Best you find out now, rather than after you've sunk a lot of money into.

THEN, once the DMV has helped you make an informed decision ...

Think long and hard about what your ultimate goal is for the truck (to help you decide how to proceed). A couple of thoughts to ponder (from my own painful experience...) It is best to decide now because down the road it will sure stink if you dumped a bunch of money into that 216 and decide that you really wish you could actually drive the truck to events or even just around town.



John

'49 Chevrolet 3804
'70 Boston Whaler Sakonnet w/ '84 Evinrude 90
'85 Ford F-350 "The Farm Dawg"

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309487
Sat May 04 2019 12:24 PM
Sat May 04 2019 12:24 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
I don’t know how long mice live. but over 40 years !! I’m guessing many generations of mice lived under that cover.
All hope definitely doesn’t mean a bottomless piggy bank. The engine is just the first thing I wanted to work on because weather it will run or it’s too far gone will determine the direction of the whole project. I haven’t posted pictures of the cab yet!!! It’s like Swiss cheese and would probably be discarded by many. These definitely are not a dime a dozen around my area. So I will work slowly and within my weekly budget to buy panels and parts.
I don’t appreciate the be cautious advice though. That’s why I am here I will need plenty of advice
Here’s some more pictures of the carburetor if you see anything out of the ordinary let me know!

Attached Files
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309489
Sat May 04 2019 12:31 PM
Sat May 04 2019 12:31 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
John
No worries there as of yet. It is titled. But it’s titled to the serial number of the block. Even on the original title which I have a copy of. So I do have to find out about how to change that if the block is shot. And I do agree it very likely is but I haven’t gotten into it yet

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309514
Sat May 04 2019 02:39 PM
Sat May 04 2019 02:39 PM
tclederman  Offline
Boltergeist
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 27,912
Jarvisburg, NC
Yes, (as you indicated) when you title it by the original block, ask your DMV what you should do when you change the block.

See if you can get their instructions in writing, and/or, send them a registered letter with your understanding of their instructions.


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban - part of the family for 50 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic - part of the family for 14 years
Z-series (54/55) GMC 350 (2-ton) COE - now part of Dave's family
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engine are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler.
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309525
Sat May 04 2019 04:36 PM
Sat May 04 2019 04:36 PM
2
2ManyTrucks  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 192
california
Well don’t get too down until you got solid data...
I needed a 235 temporary replacement for my original 216, the best candidate in my junk car pile was an engine that last ran in 1980,
After removing a gallon of cherry pits and mice nests, from inside, I gas washed the rockers and valves and oil pan, sprayed oil on it, hammered all the valves free with wd-40, pounded some bent push rods straight-er...
And that’s the engine I’ve been running for about 3 summers now. It leaks coolant out the side of the casting a bit, this engine also froze a bit with water in it one fall back in the late 70s, I’m gonna use jbweld to seal that up one of these days.
-s


1430s, 1420, 9430
-2MT
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309572
Sat May 04 2019 11:31 PM
Sat May 04 2019 11:31 PM
truckernix  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,826
Bracebridge Ontario Canada
I will say that getting an old motor unstuck and getting it running is one of the most fun filled things I have ever done. My truck sat in a field for over 17 years and I got it going. It didn't have nests inside but it was stuck at first.I did an in place rebuild and put about 40K miles on it. Last year I pulled it, had the block tanked and bored and it is like new.


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309576
Sun May 05 2019 12:30 AM
Sun May 05 2019 12:30 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
I did a little more inspection today after work. The rockers are very rusty to the point of rust is scaling off them I think the head has rusted itself into one solid piece I really don’t know if I’ll even be able to remove the head bolts. Going to clean the rest of the mouse hotel tomorrow after work and try removing the bolts before I even start with the manifold bolts.

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309945
Tue May 07 2019 02:46 PM
Tue May 07 2019 02:46 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
Ok I think I have decided on the path this truck is going to go on after a week of thinking and discovery !
It’s probably going to be a few weeks before I can get it into the shop as my son and his buddy are working on a 97 mustang. So I’m going to leave the truck out behind the barn until then, and just keep spraying every nut and bolt with penetrating oil every day or so hopefully that will help with some of the worst bolts.
In the meantime lots of research and questions!!
I’m still looking for a repair manual anyone have an opinion on where to find the best one ?
Here’s a picture of the rear anyone know what the bent up bracket is ? Im thinking it was a spare tire holder but not to sure !

Attached Files
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309949
Tue May 07 2019 03:03 PM
Tue May 07 2019 03:03 PM
tclederman  Offline
Boltergeist
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 27,912
Jarvisburg, NC
The 1947-1951/52 Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual is on-line.
It is also available in reproduction (hardcopy & CD-ROM) from many parts vendors.

You might want to visit the Tech Tips section (on top-line menu above). Lot of good advice and information there (especially in Getting Started).


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban - part of the family for 50 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic - part of the family for 14 years
Z-series (54/55) GMC 350 (2-ton) COE - now part of Dave's family
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engine are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler.
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309950
Tue May 07 2019 03:08 PM
Tue May 07 2019 03:08 PM
tclederman  Offline
Boltergeist
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 27,912
Jarvisburg, NC
My bad/wrong guess is that bent bar is an "add-on".

You have a few good dents in the frame members, too?

Last edited by tclederman; Tue May 07 2019 04:22 PM. Reason: Bad guess

Tim
1954Advance-Design.com
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban - part of the family for 50 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic - part of the family for 14 years
Z-series (54/55) GMC 350 (2-ton) COE - now part of Dave's family
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engine are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler.
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309956
Tue May 07 2019 03:38 PM
Tue May 07 2019 03:38 PM
John Milliman  Offline
Founder/Developer
Joined: Nov 1995
Posts: 4,093
St. Mary's Co., MD
The bent up bar *is/was* one of two that held the spare tire there.


John

'49 Chevrolet 3804
'70 Boston Whaler Sakonnet w/ '84 Evinrude 90
'85 Ford F-350 "The Farm Dawg"

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1309992
Tue May 07 2019 11:04 PM
Tue May 07 2019 11:04 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
There is a add on to the frame of about 20” I assume it was for the sign that it carried for 40 years. Yes the rear crossmember is bent down a little that can easily be straightened. The main frame rails appear to be very straight and in very good condition.
John,
I really think it looks like that bent up piece was a spare tire carrier but I see no evidence of a missing second piece.

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1310033
Wed May 08 2019 01:46 PM
Wed May 08 2019 01:46 PM
M
Mike B  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,708
Hughesville, MD
The rear spare tire bracket more than likely hung on two stud (with big wing nuts) that attached to the side of the frame rails (that's the way it is on the TF trucks).

Mike B smile

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1310068
Wed May 08 2019 08:53 PM
Wed May 08 2019 08:53 PM
F
Frank50  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,589
USA
Do take all necessary precautions while handling/cleaning animal waste/ mice pee/poop. You don't want the hantavirus.

As much as I love old Chevy trucks, frankly there's not much left to love with that one. Major mechanical parts, body panels, hired body work, hired mechanical work, all the small stuff, etc... add up over time. The best advice I ever heard as it relates to any old car/truck, collector vehicle... is buy the best example of what you want that you can afford. Dragging one home from the fencerow is kinda romantic, but usually takes too long and cost too much.

Of course I'm just some guy with a keyboard. It's your truck. Do what you want to do - but do it safely.

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1310312
Sat May 11 2019 01:04 AM
Sat May 11 2019 01:04 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
What terms do you use when searching for a 235 on like a Craigslist or searchtempest or something like that. I don’t have much luck searching Craigslist. I usually use like Chevy 235 of Chevy 235 engine or something along those lines.

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1310715
Tue May 14 2019 07:44 PM
Tue May 14 2019 07:44 PM
F
Frank50  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,589
USA
What you mention has worked for me. Any combination/arrangement of Chevy 235 engine should get some hits. You may have to widen your search.

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1310740
Tue May 14 2019 10:19 PM
Tue May 14 2019 10:19 PM
S
sweepleader  Offline
Wrench Fetcher
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 64
Minnesota
The current owner might not know what a 235 is, that is working against you. You might try "Chevrolet 6 cylinder" with the years you are interested in. You might have to buy an entire or partial vehicle.


1962 K10 short stepside, much modified for rally
1969 T50 fire truck, nos, needs a few things
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1311589
Thu May 23 2019 03:18 AM
Thu May 23 2019 03:18 AM
B
B.Kelley  Offline
New Guy
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 3
Fort Wayne, Indiana
I like ecklers classic Chevy for parts and they have books as well. The shop manual and user manual are very informative and worth having. The engine size however is difficult given you're not very good on the internet, the best way is to find the serial number stamped on the block behind the distributor and look it up on the Web. I have been told that if you have the original oil pan, a 235 will have 235 stamped on the side of the oil pan. Another great place for parts is NAPA, at least my local Napa is very informative and usually has what I need in stock. Great looking truck by the way, I have 51 4400.

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1311855
Sat May 25 2019 12:19 AM
Sat May 25 2019 12:19 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
New question..
it is my understanding that it is not possible to regear the stock rearend. Is that correct? So if I want to keep it a dually is there any certain axle I should be looking for that will fit the best or is it more personal preference?
I have been giving every nut and bolt I can see anywhere a blast of pb blaster every week for the last few weeks as well as dosing the cylinders with atf acetone mixture. But I really don’t hold out much hope that my 235 will ever turn again. It’s very possible that the replacement engine will have a few more cylinders than the current engine.
I’m hoping to be able to get it into my shop within the next few weeks to begin the diagnosis of what it still serviceable on my truck and begin to firm up my plans a little more

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1311869
Sat May 25 2019 02:27 AM
Sat May 25 2019 02:27 AM
G
Grigg  Offline
.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,957
Lexington, VA
Before answering about regearing you need to know the present ratio. But the answer, even if yes, is still not very fast.

GM used Dana 70HD and Dana 80 axles in later model P30 and similar chassis. These axles from those applications have same bolt pattern (but larger 5.25” center bore). They are also available in useful ratios as well as even faster that you could use. Down side is they only have disc brakes, which then requires swapping to front disc brakes too, so more work and expense.


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1311889
Sat May 25 2019 08:54 AM
Sat May 25 2019 08:54 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
How do I identify the current gear ratio? There are no plates anywhere I guess I have to wait until I can remove the diff to see. I don’t really want to do a front axle swap too. Wow lots of things I didn’t think of !!!

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1311899
Sat May 25 2019 01:05 PM
Sat May 25 2019 01:05 PM
G
Grigg  Offline
.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,957
Lexington, VA
You may find some useful info in the Tech Tips section of this site, link at very top of page, or here
https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/

One of those is about the P-30 rear axle swap.
https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/bigbolts/p30swap/

A more approachable front brake upgrade (than in the above tech tip) can be found here, sticky thread in the Big Bolts section.
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...4-1-1-5-and-2-ton-trucks.html#Post725572

You can find the gear ratio by counting turns of the driveshaft and wheels, don't need to disassemble anything.
First assume it has a standard differential, no locking device. If that is the case (should be for your model) then leave one wheel on the ground, jack up the other and because of the differential action the wheel that turns will turn twice as fast than if both turn.
Turn the one wheel 20 times and count turns of the driveshaft. Divide the result by 10 for your gear ratio, for example 61.7 turns of driveshaft is 6.17:1 ratio. Others may advise to only turn the wheel once, or turn both wheels together once.. the method I have described is both easier and more accurate.


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1311945
Sun May 26 2019 12:24 AM
Sun May 26 2019 12:24 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
Thanks Grigg
I have read everything in the big bolt section of the tech tips but probably should reread some of the write ups again. I have no shortage of ideas on what I want to do with my truck. Probably doesn’t help that it’s still sitting behind the barn and not in the shop yet. Soon !!

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1311955
Sun May 26 2019 02:15 AM
Sun May 26 2019 02:15 AM
E
EdPruss  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,672
Longmont, CO
Jack up one wheel, count driveshaft revolutions vs. axle revolutions to get axle ratio.

Ed


'37 GMC T-18 w/ DD 4-53T, RTO-610, 6231 aux., '95 GMC running gear, full disc brakes, power steering, 22.5 wheels and tires.
'47 GMC 1 ton w/ 302, NP-540, 4wd, full width Blazer front axle.
'54 GMC 630 w/ 503 gasser, 5 speed, ex fire truck, shortened WB 4', install 8' bed.
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: EdPruss] #1312090
Mon May 27 2019 03:53 PM
Mon May 27 2019 03:53 PM
K
klhansen  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,177
Eagle River, Alaska
Originally Posted by EdPruss
Jack up one wheel, count driveshaft revolutions vs. axle revolutions to get axle ratio.

Ed

Don't forget to allow for the fact that only one wheel is turning. The spider gears in the differential will cause the driveshaft to turn only half as many turns as if both wheels were turning together.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1312124
Tue May 28 2019 12:01 AM
Tue May 28 2019 12:01 AM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
Does anyone know anything about the early 90’s ups chassis? I found one for sale cheap close to me I’m going to see about looking at it tomorrow. It’s listed as a 1993 ups chassis made by Chevy
Dan

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1312126
Tue May 28 2019 12:05 AM
Tue May 28 2019 12:05 AM
M
Mike B  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,708
Hughesville, MD
I bet it has a million miles or more on the chassis...UPS runs the wheels off of then before they let them go!

Mike B smile

Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1312136
Tue May 28 2019 01:29 AM
Tue May 28 2019 01:29 AM
G
Grigg  Offline
.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,957
Lexington, VA
I thought UPS didn’t let them go? They part them out and scrap or rebuild them in house?

In any case can’t say anything about how useful those parts may be without seeing it. Is it dual or single wheel?


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1312198
Tue May 28 2019 03:12 PM
Tue May 28 2019 03:12 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
It’s a dually. Seller claims it’s a 93 ups chassis and he doesn’t know anything else about it.
He’s selling it so cheap a scraper will probably get it before I have a chance to.

Attached Files
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1312228
Tue May 28 2019 06:04 PM
Tue May 28 2019 06:04 PM
G
Grigg  Offline
.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,957
Lexington, VA
Well it is not your original bolt pattern.
I'd guess from the small picture that it has 6 lug Budd (stud centered) wheels. Also suspect it is not a GM chassis, not that it matters. Oshoksh and perhaps some others did use that bolt pattern for step van chassis.

Without a good plan already I'd pass on that chassis. Then figure out what you're trying to do with the truck and make a reasonable plan.


1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Re: 1950 4400 [Re: Dcurtis] #1312257
Tue May 28 2019 11:43 PM
Tue May 28 2019 11:43 PM
D
Dcurtis  Offline OP
New Guy
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
SE Michigan
Yup I didn’t even get a chance to go see it. I’m not dying to pull the trigger on something I’m more trying to get an idea of what’s available out in my area and what could work.
There seems to be no lack of knowledge here on how to identify things and what could work.
You guys are great!!!
Dan

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