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Solenoid gone bad? #1307296 Tue Apr 16 2019 02:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 841
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idaho39 Offline OP
Shop Shark
I have a 1955 Chevy 235 engine and when I turn the ignition to start the car ,,the starter hesitates and then takes hold ,some times ,many times right after another before it engages and stays engaged long enough to start the engine .. I am asking how to determine which of the two are faulty before I buy one or the other .

Last edited by idaho39; Tue Apr 16 2019 10:30 PM.









Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307299 Tue Apr 16 2019 02:59 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,594
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beltfed Offline
Shop Shark
It really doesn’t matter if you’ve yet to pull them off the motor. They come off as a pair. Once off it becomes easy to troubleshoot the two. Just make sure your not going down a rabbit hole. I had the same issue this spring. After way too much work, found the ignition switch had burnt contacts.

Last edited by beltfed; Tue Apr 16 2019 03:00 PM.

Six volt guy living in a twelve volt world
Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307301 Tue Apr 16 2019 03:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 841
I
idaho39 Offline OP
Shop Shark
So, I take the solenoid off the starter leaving the starter connected up to the motor and then check the solenoid and relay for continuity of each to determine which one is bad.?
.I will take a look at the ignition switch first..










Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307328 Tue Apr 16 2019 06:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,072
W
Wrenchbender Ret. Offline
Master Gabster
Does the starter spin but not turn the engine or does it click & not turn the starter?
George


They say money can't buy happiness. It can buy old Chevy trucks though. Same thing.

1956 Chevy 1/2-Ton Pickup

Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307334 Tue Apr 16 2019 07:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 841
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idaho39 Offline OP
Shop Shark

The starter does not click .It spins .but only after it starts to connect to the fly wheel.. after a few tries it takes hold enough to turn the engine over and it starts

Last edited by idaho39; Tue Apr 16 2019 07:20 PM.









Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307340 Tue Apr 16 2019 07:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 696
V
VEW Offline
Shop Shark
Sounds like you have a weak spring....assuming all your connections are good.


Victor

41 3/4 Ton Pick Up (in process)
55 Grumman Kurbside (Doughboy) 235/3 on tree w/ OD
57 3100
58 C4400 Viking (Thor)
59 C4500 Short Bus (Magic Bus)
59 G3800 1 Ton Dually (Chief)


Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307342 Tue Apr 16 2019 08:05 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,101
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bartamos Offline
Master Gabster
You don't have a starter relay and a solenoid. They are the same thing. You probably have a bad/weak battery. When it does that, jump it and see what happens. There are TWO models in 1955. 55.1 and 55.2. Which one do you have?

The starter is not supposed to spin until it engages the flywheel. So it's working correctly.

Don't mix your guess in with symptoms. Report your result after jumping. Then we can move forward with next test. Be sure you jump it with a good battery and check your battery posts and cable clamps. Take off and clean really good. Check cable and wires to starter. Check carefully.
Tell us anything you have done electrically lately with wires, battery, cables, solenoid, ignition switch...........

Don't remove starter or solenoid. That's later. Use a volt meter on battery. Touch only the posts and read. Then touch only the clamps and read. looking for 12.6V.

The only relay you have is a horn relay which also acts as a hot terminal block, sometimes, and may look like it's energizing starter.
Fords have actual starter relays.
Generally: a relay has no external mechanical linkage and a solenoid does. Their electrics operate basically the same. So confusion results.


Laziness is the Father of invention.


Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307348 Tue Apr 16 2019 10:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 841
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idaho39 Offline OP
Shop Shark
bartamos. thanks for the help with the wiring ,,it is in and works fine except I might have gotten the wrong oil temp sender. that can wait ,,as now I want to fix the starting problem I have and had before I wired in the turn signals thru the ignition

I just went out and read my battery amps and it is at 12.55 ,,I put my slow charger on it and after it charges up to 12.6 then I will check the cables to the starter ..

I have a car motor 55 Belair ,,guess you were talking about the two years of PickUp styles with the 55.1 and 55.2 ..if not then you'll have to enlighten me..

Ok, glad I only have one relay or solenoid.. After getting all the wiring put in and tested to work properly ,,I then charged the battery to full and it is down some to 12.55 from a full 12.6..



Thats all I can come up with for now about any changes ,and like I said it did this same thing last June when I drove it last,, I do have a good battery to jump the one in the car ,,but need a helper and my son flew back home last Saturday ..










Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307353 Tue Apr 16 2019 11:10 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,101
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bartamos Offline
Master Gabster
OK good. 12.55 is close enough. It could still be bad because they show 12.6 at static (no load) then break down under the extreme load of starter.
Yes, I was speaking of 55.1 55.2 trucks. Wanted to look at the correct schematic in case there were changes. If a car motor has something different than what I said, I don't know it.

I still say battery or wires/cables/terminals/clamps/connections/corrosion/, lead/copper sulfate.... The jump from another battery is still necessary. A helper is not mandatory. Pull other vehicle close, hook up cables and start motor. Stop motor, get out and disconnect. The posts and clamps MUST be thoroughly cleaned. The idea is to see if starter suddenly acts normal whether it starts the motor or not.

You can also take the battery to two different places. They will put under load and test. Don't trust one place/machine/operator. O'Reilly's, Autozone, etc do it for free. In or out of the vehicle.

So many times I have seen myself and others struggle when it was the battery or it's connections. It will fool you. So we must be 100% sure before blaming something else. This includes battery ground to the motor, ground to body and frame.


Laziness is the Father of invention.


Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307372 Wed Apr 17 2019 01:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,863
truckernix Offline
Master Gabster
I think you might get a further hint if you turn on the dash lights before hitting the starter. If the lights blink or go out, you have a connection problem or weak battery.


1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


My Chevy Master 4 Door is on the Road!
Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307382 Wed Apr 17 2019 02:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,072
W
Wrenchbender Ret. Offline
Master Gabster
It sounds like you have a bad starter drive. It has a one way clutch in it. When it gets old & worn the clutch slips & it doesn't turn the flywheel. A starter shop or some old time mechanics can change the drive but its probably the same cost to get a reman starter.
George


They say money can't buy happiness. It can buy old Chevy trucks though. Same thing.

1956 Chevy 1/2-Ton Pickup

Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307392 Wed Apr 17 2019 04:20 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,101
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bartamos Offline
Master Gabster
It does sound like solenoid does not stay engaged. If not battery/connections, I would go along with the spring as Victor said/starter drive as you say or entire solenoid replace. Can't hear, see or observe. Trying to read hard on his explanation. Without the clicking, I know you guys are thinking starter drive, not solenoid electro magnet strength/coils because it always spins. I focused on first post saying starter hesitates and thought battery/connections. I just suggested what I would do to prove to myself it's not the battery with something easy, like cleaning and jumping.


Laziness is the Father of invention.


Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307438 Wed Apr 17 2019 06:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 841
I
idaho39 Offline OP
Shop Shark
After checking for voltage drop at the starter and found none I preceded on with the next step and so I hooked up the jumper cables to my truck battery which read a full 12 +volts to the battery in the other vehicle that still reads 12.55 volts .. same thing as before ,..I seen no drop in dash lights , .

So now tomorrow morninng I have a re-manufactured starter along with a new solenoid coming to the auto parts store .


Last edited by idaho39; Wed Apr 17 2019 11:33 PM.









Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307449 Wed Apr 17 2019 08:04 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,101
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bartamos Offline
Master Gabster
I'm going to take a wild guess here. You have a 1939 Chevy car, either coup or sedan. It has a 1955 Chevy car motor in it.
Let us know how the new starter works. A road trip is on your future.


Laziness is the Father of invention.


Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307452 Wed Apr 17 2019 08:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,539
Justhorsenround Offline
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
He was trying very hard not to tell us he was working on a car. He almost succeeded.🛠


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)


"I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line" and lock up those on the wrong side of that line.

Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307474 Wed Apr 17 2019 11:20 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,101
B
bartamos Offline
Master Gabster
That's OK. Nothing in this posts is car specific really. 235 and wiring is basically the same. But watch it buster!


Laziness is the Father of invention.


Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307477 Wed Apr 17 2019 11:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 841
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idaho39 Offline OP
Shop Shark
I know ,,but but but .. you guys on here are so knowlegable and helpful ..maybe I should move on and not have the temptation to ask for help . thx all who replied about this .










Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307479 Thu Apr 18 2019 12:05 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,101
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bartamos Offline
Master Gabster
Tiny will be your friend.


Laziness is the Father of invention.


Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307499 Thu Apr 18 2019 01:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,072
W
Wrenchbender Ret. Offline
Master Gabster
Stick around. Cars have Stovebolt engines too. There is a great bunch of guys on this website all willing to help.
George


They say money can't buy happiness. It can buy old Chevy trucks though. Same thing.

1956 Chevy 1/2-Ton Pickup

Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307551 Thu Apr 18 2019 12:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 841
I
idaho39 Offline OP
Shop Shark
Thx to all of you who replied to my posting , My first old stove bolt was a 39 I bought for $50 ..when I towed it home at the age of 19 ,the clutch was stuck to the preasure plate and to get it out I had to drop the rear end ,,inclosed drive line .. I have photos and could post them in the spoon of it after I got it running good and spray painted it with grey primer paint ,,and maybe I will some day , if any one is interested to see them.. the winter of 64 I took the wife to her mothers as she was about to bare our first child as it was closer to the hospital .. the old stove bolt froze up and busted the block and I sold it for $35 .. So this vehicle I have now is a desire to own another some 54 years later..

The next step was pull the starter,,, soon as I did I found at least one of the culprits,, the gear went round and round .. Went to town and bought a new starter and relay ,,put them together and installed them and now the starter keeps on turning the fly wheel until gas gets to the carb and the motor starts .. not sure if the relay was bad and didnt want to take a chance on it ..so I might just rebuild the old starter as it Delco Remy and kinda want that back in the ______ as it is old stock

Last edited by idaho39; Thu Apr 18 2019 05:23 PM.









Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307598 Thu Apr 18 2019 06:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,958
Rusty Rod Offline
Moderator - The Electrical Bay and Rocky Mountain Bolters
So, you are saying that the problem is solved? If the gear is round, what shape are the flywheel teefs?


Another quality post.


Real Trucks Rattle

HELP! The Paranoids are after me!
Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307617 Thu Apr 18 2019 08:39 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,101
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bartamos Offline
Master Gabster
Good job on your Chevy X, Area 51 vehicle. Probably feels good to have that sorted.


Laziness is the Father of invention.


Re: How do you determine if it is a Starter Relay Or Solemoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307621 Thu Apr 18 2019 09:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 841
I
idaho39 Offline OP
Shop Shark
Rusty Rod. .I meant that the gear of the old starter just freely turned round and round ,,which it should not do that ..as for the teeth on the flywheel? not bad at all very little wear . and it sounds good when I hit the starter as to a good solid grab ..

bartamos,, yes my Chevy X and me are getting along quite nice today ..thank you

Oh ! you ask whats next? well , I have dual carbs and after I get insurance on it to drive on the streets ,I want to take it to old school guy I have met who works on old carbruators .

What if I take my Chevy X stove bolt carbs to the Engine Shop ? They like figering things out there too,,don't they?? smile

Last edited by idaho39; Thu Apr 18 2019 09:17 PM.









Re: Solenoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307625 Thu Apr 18 2019 09:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,539
Justhorsenround Offline
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
Enjoy pushing the envelope do ya? You have been invited in the past to discuss your Chevy X in the Greasy Spoon Forum. Personally I don’t subscribe to the theory that because it has a inline 6 in the car, it fits the criteria to be included in a “Truck” site. It’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it!
nanner


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)


"I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line" and lock up those on the wrong side of that line.

Re: Solenoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307626 Thu Apr 18 2019 09:30 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,101
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bartamos Offline
Master Gabster
You can ask about the carbs for sure. Many folks have twin carbs.


Laziness is the Father of invention.


Re: Solenoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307636 Thu Apr 18 2019 10:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 841
I
idaho39 Offline OP
Shop Shark
The truth of the matter is I am breaking the rules even if I call my car Chevy X ..If any of you post questions about your trucks in the spoon as for help ,,It gets moved to what ever the problem is ,, engine shop ,,electrical .drive line ect ect ..that is what is supposed to happen ,,that is the rules ,,the forum was built for trucks ,,and I am happy for all of you ,, great forum not cluddered up with all sorts of other vehicles ,, I was stepping over the line a bit.

No hard feelings against any of you ,, thanks again all of you for befriend me ,, I could stay and ask questions about my 71 Cheyenne as it is under the rules ,,but I have none about it ,, I donated when I first signed into this forum and have gotten every bit of its worth back and then some .. I have recieved more than I contributed ,,again I just wanted to say that me leaving is not because any one of you..
Idaho 39










Re: Solenoid gone bad? [Re: idaho39] #1307645 Fri Apr 19 2019 01:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,193
5
52Carl Offline
Master Gabster
Drive the X to Homecoming and I'll bet there will be a swarm of truck guys around it. Personally, I consider the original engines of these old trucks to be the most fascinating aspect of the deal.

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