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Texas registration system flaw
#1304172 Fri Mar 22 2019 04:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8
J
jda Offline OP
New Guy
In trying to update the title to my 1952 3100 AD I’ve hit on a flaw in the state DMV registration system. Texas uses ONLY motor numbers on titles that predate the standard VIN system. I have owned the truck since 1980. At some point my truck had the original 216 engine replaced with a 235 and the title was noted as “engine changed”. The stamp by the distributor is F0620J and that is the number the state insists I use on the title. All that number means is that the engine was made in Flint on June,20 and was going out as a “base” model as indicated by the J. The original door panel is still readable but the state refuses to use that number since it is not a standard VIN. My questions

1) Do other states use this same rule?
2) Since there were certainly other 235s made in Flint on the same date (no year indicator) do any of you know of trucks (or cars) carrying the same motor number-especially if in Texas. (Motor # F0620J)

If I can convince them there could be vehicles with the same number I might be able to challenge their silly system.


1952 Chevy 3100 AD
1965 Mustang
1975 Jeep
Re: Texas registration system flaw
jda #1304176 Fri Mar 22 2019 05:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 219
T
I have more zippers then a pair of cargo pants
ILLINOIS excepted the title I got from from Kansas & they used the serial/vin numbers on the door jam & I have had no problems the last 5 plus years getting plates. Actually it's stupid what Texas is doing because how many older vehicles still have the original motors in them?? BUT that being said is just a means of iding the truck. That also means ANYTIME the mtr is changed the title has to be updated also..

Last edited by TooMany2count; Fri Mar 22 2019 06:02 AM.

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Re: Texas registration system flaw
jda #1304177 Fri Mar 22 2019 06:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,658
C
Shop Shark
I was born in Texas 75 years ago and was a licensed salvage dealer until not too long ago. I have dealt with a lot of title problems. Up until the mid 50's Texas vehicles were titled by the engine number. That was law back then. Factory short blocks were supplied with the serial number blank so the installer could stamp the number of the replacement block. Whoever installed the engine should have ground out the number and stamped it with the original number. I would suppose that a local tax assessors office put the number changed notation on the title. The law is not flawed. Whoever went to the tax office when they installed a different engine was stupid. They should have just changed the numbers on the engine and it would not have been illegal to do so. The number you cite doesn't even match a Chev serial number. But if the number you cite is stamped on the boss by the distributor, that would be the correct number to appear on the title. If you want to open a can of worms, drive down to the Texas DMV at 1001 E. Parmer Lane in Austin. If it were my vehicle and it is a clear title, I would leave it alone. I'm not sure I see your point in what you are trying to gain by criticizing what was law almost 70 years ago. Your statement "Texas uses ONLY motor numbers on titles that predate the standard VIN system" is false. The 17 digit standard VIN started in 1982. Texas started titling vehicles by the VIN number of the vehicle in the mid '50s.

Many states titled vehicles by engine number until the mid '50s.

Re: Texas registration system flaw
jda #1304189 Fri Mar 22 2019 12:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,277
Grease Monkey, Moderator General Truck Talk & Greasy Spoon
Swinging swords at windmills? Not a good idea to mess with the DMV. They can and will make your life miserable. If your current title is valid, be content and move on to more important stuff.


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
‘65 Chevy Biscayne 4dr 230 I-6 one owner (I’m #2)
‘39 Dodge Businessmans Coupe


"I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line" and lock up those on the wrong side of that line.

Re: Texas registration system flaw
Justhorsenround #1304217 Fri Mar 22 2019 04:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,658
C
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by Justhorsenround
Swinging swords at windmills? Not a good idea to mess with the DMV. They can and will make your life miserable. If your current title is valid, be content and move on to more important stuff.


That is a pretty concise way of telling the guy what I used up a whole paragraph of telling him. Hope he takes our advice.

Re: Texas registration system flaw
jda #1304219 Fri Mar 22 2019 04:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,900
H
Boltergeist
There's an even shorter version of the same idea- - - - -"Don't get into a whizzing contest with a skunk!"
LOL!
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Texas registration system flaw
jda #1304221 Fri Mar 22 2019 04:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,603
S
Shop Shark
There were a number of states that were not forward thinkers back then. I have a truck from Oregon with the same issue. This is the reason I have kept the original 216 because of the engine number matches the title. But, in reality all you have is a engine that you have a title for, nothing to do with the truck. Alas, arm wrestling and trying to explain the merits of assigning a body number in lieu of the original engine number with the DMV will be fruitless, like Martin says. There should be no duplicates of engine numbers because the engine number's suffix is a production sequence number that is unique only for your truck.

Last edited by sstock; Fri Mar 22 2019 04:54 PM.

1953 Chevrolet 3100
261 cu inch, sm420, 3.55 rear, omaha orange, still 6 volt, RPO green glass, side carrier spare, all done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bli...n05i04t1aokgm4p04jiwgffwhyyih5xbk0h00410
1964 GMC 1000
305 Big Block V6, sm420, the next cab off restoration
Re: Texas registration system flaw
TooMany2count #1304238 Fri Mar 22 2019 06:44 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,983
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed Forum
Originally Posted by TooMany2count
That also means ANYTIME the mtr is changed the title has to be updated also..

Yep, it's a profit center for the DMV. frown
Back in the 60's, CA also used engine number, or at least required a visit to DMV if you swapped an engine. I ran into that when I licensed my first Model A. It hadn't been on the road, but DMV insisted that I needed to notify them within 10 days of an engine swap, even though the car hadn't been licensed or on the road for a number of years. They wanted charge me a penalty because I hadn't done that within their prescribed timeframe. Somehow magically, after that first unsuccessful visit to DMV for a license with the new engine number, the engine had JUST been swapped. Then I was able to get the registration and license. wink
What Jerry said. grin The power is in their hands.


Kevin
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Re: Texas registration system flaw
jda #1304253 Fri Mar 22 2019 10:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,900
H
Boltergeist
California doesn't institutionalize sadistic psychopaths- - - -they just give them jobs at the DMV! One of the best scenes I've witnessed in the past 40-something years was the California state line fading out of view on my way back to Tennessee for good!
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Texas registration system flaw
sstock #1304303 Sat Mar 23 2019 04:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,229
M
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by sstock
There should be no duplicates of engine numbers because the engine number's suffix is a production sequence number that is unique only for your truck.


The OP's engine number is F0620J which tells us it was built after 1956 (that was the last year Chevrolet stamped a serial number on the engine). This means every engine built in Flint on June 20th with a J code will have the exact same number... there's no way to tell them apart, so it can't be used for titling purposes... it's not a unique number.

Mike B smile

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