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Ken, we are on the same page. Let someone else do the enginering. The problem with the clip is there are no directions on how to install. Just "welding it up" is the easy part. On a kit, (a GOOD kit) there are directions, complete with template or even jigs to weld it in correct.

I do admit the Camaro is one of the best designed fronts ever. If you go to an auto-cross competition you will see a ton of these cars, and they run with the Vettes and such.

But for a home builder, the clip and exactly how you go about mounting it is asking a bunch. For instance, how do you set ride height? I have seen a bunch of them that were welded on and THEN they found that the car/truck was too low or too high. Now is when the quackery starts, cut springs, spring blocks, what a mess.

Yes Martin, we are in general agreement, I saw an issue that could be discussed beyond the usual "look in your repair manual" type questions on this site.

I did not have any particular vehicle in mind when I started this discussion, certainly not a truck. I guess I was thinking in terms of the '33 Plymouth I am working on which has parallel leaf springs and a 5-1/2" dropped tubular axle from Butch's Rod Shop. These axles do not have spring pads pre-mounted, so welding them in place after assembly is required, so obviously welding other brackets on is not a problem. Most Rods only have about 3" of upward travel and about 6" total and assuming a shaft angle of about 30 degrees, this would be around 1" total sliding at the joint (more or less). I was thinking that a splined joint would have a good 6" or more of overlap which should be pently to prevent any binding. Rocking the rack back and forth for whatever reason, all that would really do is slide the joint back and forth as designed, I should expect. As far as suspension breaking, the axle would bottom out on the frame, so I don't really see where thats much different from the normal travel, even if the axle pulls back some on one side, there would be enough overlap in the joint to deal with it.

As far as the factory issue goes, this would seem to me to be irrelevant as the axle era doesn't overlap with the rack era. And as far as trucks go, I don't recall ever seeing one with a rack anyway, regardless of suspension type. (as far as I know).

Gear, if I can call you that :), you may still have a problem. The "spring wrap" doesn't do the same thing as the suspension bottoming out. As you can see by my drawing, it will try to "bend" the steering shaft, not simply compress the slip joint.

Why dont you just use a Vega box? If you use early Ferd style biscuit motor mounts the moter moves very little so you don't need very much room for the steering shaft. They make all different pitman arms and it really is a great way to go.

I have seen racks mounted to I Beams or tube axles. One way used a cable like steering shaft found on early Pintos. You don't see them anymore because, it just doesn't work.

You could put a locator bar so the axle won't roll on the springs (as pictured).

Most of the best fabricators will say, if you don't have a pile of scrap in the corner from failed ideas, you havn't learned anything. Let's talk about that Vega box

By the way, that '33 Plymouth is one of the best looking cars of the era.... beautiful car. [img]http://members.aol.com/icantunderstand/axle.jpg[/img]

Yes Martin, I realize that spring wrap and the normal axle travel are not exactly the same thing, I didn't mean to say they were, and your drawing does exactly what I was thinking. My visualization skills tell me that as the rack pitches about the centerline of the axle, the u-joints will take care of that "bending" motion, and the resulting change in distance between the joints get taken care of by the movement of the shafts. For what its worth, I have driven a '34 Ferd coupe with this setup (dropped axle and stock buggy spring type suspension) on some rough roads in Demoines, Iowa once, and I don't recall felling anything unusual about how it steered or handled. Remember, this was just a design study on my part playing the devils advocate, I have no intensions of using a setup like this on anything.

My '33 already has the Vega cross steering setup, so don't worry.

Yes, I freely admit to screwing up stuff, but I prefer to throw away the evidence.

LOL, yu funny, make me raff all night long. Gear, your alright. You do know that the 34 Ferd with a buggy spring doesn't have the spring wrap problem. Whether using the stock wishbone, split bones, or four bar, they all keep the axle from rotating.

In my drawing I used only one U joint, your right, with two this would be solved.

Your Plymouth sounds cool. There is a guy across the street from me with about 20 Teens through '32 Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler cars and bodies. They are very temping.....a '22 roadster.....Hiboy.......little DeSoto Baby Hemi....rrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: MARTINSR ]