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Re: 1950 3100 stop light switch? [Re: Shaffer's1950] #1283133
Wed Oct 10 2018 02:51 AM
Wed Oct 10 2018 02:51 AM
N
ndkid275  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,105
Northern VA
My bad, I thought 300 ohms was in open position (lights off) and zero ohms when it is closed (lights on). What is confusing me is when he talks about moving the lever, which way is he moving it.

if he moves it with brake pedal it will close it.
If he has it off the truck and moves it, it would open it.

Sorry, trying to figure out so I understand.

Shaffer, can you please describe how you are testing and which way you are moving the lever/switch? Some of us (me) aren’t smart but like to learn.

Chris

Re: 1950 3100 stop light switch? [Re: Shaffer's1950] #1283170
Wed Oct 10 2018 02:49 PM
Wed Oct 10 2018 02:49 PM
S
Shaffer's1950  Offline OP
Shop Shark
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 119
Lancaster, Ca
I apologise for the confusion. The brake light switch is on my bench (removed). With the setting on OHMS I tested the switch. The switch (I believe) when installed pushes that lever closed and when you press on the brake lever it opens (extends) the arm. So, that being said, when I hold the lever in the closed position (like it's mounted not pressing on brake lever) it is at ZERO. When I release the arm (like pressing on the brake) it goes up on the meter to about 300. Sounds likes it's working correctly.?

Re: 1950 3100 stop light switch? [Re: Shaffer's1950] #1283188
Wed Oct 10 2018 04:24 PM
Wed Oct 10 2018 04:24 PM
B
bartamos  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 5,283
State48 Ranch
In this case, you are not checking ohmage per se, you are checking continuity. When switch is supposed to be off, meter should read "open". When it's supposed to be on, it reads some ohms or beeps. It does not make any difference how many ohms. You are not testing for proper ohms. Just to see if it has continuity. If it is passing current from one side of switch to the other. It is pretty easy to figure out which position is off and which position is on by mere observation of how it is mounted and operates. No reason to make this more complicated than it is. Continuity is usually tested with the component completely disconnected from any wires.
This switch is a lever operated, normally closed, momentary switch.

You can check it with the truck battery and bulb from truck. Don't need no stinking meter.


1960 GMC K1001 (The Oreo SpeedWagon)
If it ain't fixed, break it.

The problem with a theocracy is that, whatever the theo, the cracy people end up being in charge.




Re: 1950 3100 stop light switch? [Re: bartamos] #1283196
Wed Oct 10 2018 05:46 PM
Wed Oct 10 2018 05:46 PM
W
walterhvogel  Offline
Wrench Fetcher
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Seattle Wa.
I am thoroughly confused. This is the on/off switch for the brake lights? When the pedal is not being stepped on, the switch is open preventing voltage to the lights, also called normally open. When the pedal is stepped on, the switch closes and allows the current to flow through the lights, momentarily closed. In the open state, the resistance is Infinite, in the closed state, the resistance is zero. Shaffer - verify the ohm meter is functioning correctly, test it by itself, leads apart should read infinite, leads touching should read zero. Then test the switch. whatever reading the meter gets by itself, should be the same as with the switch. Some meters have indicators other than infinite, and there may be a few ohm resistance between the leads, ymmv.


1947.2 Chevy Panel Truck 1 ton
1955.2 Chevy Suburban
1955.2 Chevy 6700 Bus/RV
Re: 1950 3100 stop light switch? [Re: walterhvogel] #1283220
Wed Oct 10 2018 07:52 PM
Wed Oct 10 2018 07:52 PM
B
bartamos  Offline
Master Gabster
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 5,283
State48 Ranch
Originally Posted by walterhvogel
I am thoroughly confused. This is the on/off switch for the brake lights? When the pedal is not being stepped on, the switch is open preventing voltage to the lights, also called normally open. When the pedal is stepped on, the switch closes and allows the current to flow through the lights, momentarily closed. In the open state, the resistance is Infinite, in the closed state, the resistance is zero. Shaffer - verify the ohm meter is functioning correctly, test it by itself, leads apart should read infinite, leads touching should read zero. Then test the switch. whatever reading the meter gets by itself, should be the same as with the switch. Some meters have indicators other than infinite, and there may be a few ohm resistance between the leads, ymmv.



The "normally" part means what condition the switch is in BEFORE it is activated. This switch is activated most of the time when, as Denny says, pedal up, not pushing on pedal. But when the pedal is pushed the switch is allowed to spring to it's "normal", as in: on the bench, nothing acting on it, position. Which in this case is ON or "closed". So it is a "normally on", referred to as a "normally closed" momentary switch. It's a little confusing. When this brake switch is in it's normal position, it is in the electrically on position because it's contacts are closed. Normally closed (NC)
Example:
If you have a momentary push button switch, the button is always up. It's spring loaded, that's the momentary part.
If you hold it down, it can do two things. Turn on or turn off, a circuit. The naming convention goes by what it does when button is up, not being activated, not being acted upon. Being held up by it's internal spring. It's "normal" circuit mode.

The analog meter has infinity, meaning OPEN circuit as you said. The digital has a 1 or OL, meaning Open Loop, open circuit. Any ohmage reading or beep is closed loop or circuit has continuity. I don't know what the resistance of switch contacts is. I don't know what scale/range he is using. Milliohms? So 300 somethings is continuity. During testing of the meter itself, some meters will register zero when the two leads are touched, some will read the resistance of the leads if the scale is proper and it's a good meter. Reading zero is actually saying it sees continuity but not measureable because "I'm a cheap unit". Testing an actual component should always show some reading. Not zero. Or should beep, or show a reading and beep, depending on the meter.
Some multimeters have a continuity setting, some don't. Some have a buzzer, some don't. On some you just use the ohm section and select the lowest range so as to detect some ohms (continuity).
Some are designed to actually measure ohms and/or also to find the other end of a wire in a harness by listening for the buzz/beep.
You have to know what mode you are in. If you have an old style analog or new style digital meter and read the instructions.



Now I'm the one making it more complicated dang Man, I gotta get off this one quick............ Oh hey, it's also a single pole, single throw eeeek


1960 GMC K1001 (The Oreo SpeedWagon)
If it ain't fixed, break it.

The problem with a theocracy is that, whatever the theo, the cracy people end up being in charge.




Re: 1950 3100 stop light switch? [Re: bartamos] #1283304
Thu Oct 11 2018 05:32 PM
Thu Oct 11 2018 05:32 PM
W
walterhvogel  Offline
Wrench Fetcher
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Seattle Wa.
Thank you for helping me wrap my head around this. I had to rush home and look under the hood, I had forgotten how the switch is implemented. Sure enough, it is being held open when the brake pedal is at rest. And “returns” to the normally closed state when pedal is depressed. Of course that concept has been covered several times already in this thread. So when the switch is not on the vehicle, it will be in the NC position and should read 0 Ω, as Shaffer has determined, but when the lever is moved (and spring tension is felt) the reading should indicate open. Shaffer states it reads 300, that is why it’s a good idea to test the meter by itself. Does the meter display 300 for open, or is the switch actually 300Ω when it should be open. If the switch is 300Ω when the lights are off, that may be enough resistance that the lights appear to be off, but there will still be current, and the battery will drain over time.


1947.2 Chevy Panel Truck 1 ton
1955.2 Chevy Suburban
1955.2 Chevy 6700 Bus/RV
Re: 1950 3100 stop light switch? [Re: Shaffer's1950] #1283350
Fri Oct 12 2018 03:27 AM
Fri Oct 12 2018 03:27 AM
5
52vff  Offline
Shop Shark
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 198
Brantford, ON, Canada
Testing your meter before using it on equipment is paramount, as bartamos stated. You need to know your equipment is working properly. He also covered using resistance or ohms function vs. Continuity ( sometimes denoted by a diode setting ), also important to know which is being used.

In the ohms or resistance setting a properly calibrated meter should read zero ohms with the test leads connected, or else it isn't worth using to actually measure resistance. On analog meters there was a knob to turn, on better digital meters there is a calibrate button.

If the meter being discussed is calibrated and being used in its resistance setting, then 300 ohms is not enough. As stated by waltervogel it will still have current flow. The reading should be infinite or Megaohms range depending on the meter.


1952 Chevrolet 1700 Bickle Seagrave
the fire truck
Re: 1950 3100 stop light switch? [Re: Shaffer's1950] #1283413
Fri Oct 12 2018 11:30 PM
Fri Oct 12 2018 11:30 PM
C
cmayna  Online
Shop Shark
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,690
Menlo Park, Ca
Testing this switch is NOT rocket science. As Bartamos said you don't need a meter. I just did a quick bench test with my spare brake light switch using my spare 12v battery and a lead tester which has a 12v bulb. Hooked it up to the switch in it's relaxed bench position, meaning with brake pedal in force, the bulb lights up. move the switch's arm and the bulb goes off. Looks good to me. Obviously if you are still running 6v, test with a 6v battery and 6v bulb tester.


Craig's '50 Chevy 3100 5 window
My truck
If I'm not working on my truck, I'm fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
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