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Jon G Offline OP
'Bolter
The bad news is these carburetors will be warped. The good news is they can be straightened. The best news is I think you can do this yourself and I’ve tried to keep it as simple as possible. The only disclaimer is “this worked for me but because of all the variable factors I can’t promise it will work for anyone else nor take any responsibility if it doesn't.” Before doing anything, please understand the pot metal they’re made of is rather brittle and can be easily ruined (cracked) if treated wrongly. If that happens, there may not be a fix. If treated correctly and carefully, I’ve learned it is almost infinitely workable. Interestingly you can correct a situation of over or under bending as many times as it takes to suit you. Plus you’ll be dealing with metal heated to 400 degrees. Please use common sense and don’t burn yourself or your house or anything.

You can use your oven for this, but only if the parts have been cleaned well using a cleaner which is not a petroleum based cleaner. You do not need to bake these like a cake. All you need do is get them to 400 degrees and then turn off the heat and let them cool naturally. Honestly I do this outside on the gas grill. It is really hot here in Big D and I don’t like heating the kitchen up in the summer (which for us lasts about 300 days a year).

Now let’s talk also about cleaning. Some of the ones I’ve been dealing with were very nasty. Mud, grease, old gas, weasel spit, all sorts of things. Clean it before you do anything and clean it as well as you can. I’ve mentioned strong vinegar here before and you can use it (12% or greater). Remove as many steel parts as you can if you do this. Vinegar doesn’t seem to damage the pot metal and does make it look nice and new again, but it may or may not cause corrosion on steel parts. Here is something else I’ve learned: you can use a mixture of dish soap and water. That might be an unexpected idea, but it works. Remove all things like steel balls, springs, needle/seat, float, everything but not the idle pick-up tube. Be careful with it as it sticks up. I put into a very old and no longer used 11 inch by 5 inch deep pan enough water to cover the parts and then I squirt maybe a quarter cup of soap in there. Put this on the gas grill and heat it. You don’t need to make it boil. Actually I’ve been hesitant to let the water boil. I don’t want a mass of suds out there. Use an old toothbrush or hand brush to clean them with this method. Take your time. The days of dipping a carb into some horrid junk for 20 minutes and pulling out what looks like a new one are over and they are not coming back. I’ve also learned acetone on a Q-Tip (Cotton Bud if you’re in the UK or other parts of Europe) can help with stubborn things. If you need to remove choke and throttle valves, carefully file the non-slotted ends off of the screws first. Then unscrew. Replacement screws can still be bought. Ask me if you need a source.

Second, you’ll need a straightening jig. I used 3/8 inch steel plate cut 4” x 6” and bought it here in Dallas from Metal Supermarkets. There is a way to make the jig which would appeal more to the machinist. And then there is a way to make an almost comically simple jig. It would be easy for me to say you need to make an elaborate jig with this and that and such and there's a lot of magic involved with this and you'll probably never be able to do it...but it would not necessarily be the truth. When you get into this, you will learn straightening these castings is 90% intuition, common sense, inventiveness, whatever you want to call it combined with what I’m going to teach you and 10% equipment.

The things you will need for certain:
1. at least 1 piece of metal as described above
2. an electric drill and bits
3. a dial gauge. I prefer the mechanical type, but anything will work if it is accurate and well made so as to allow you to lock it with a screw. Mine looks like this:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uWWrsrRHX9TGgYpD6

4. a feeler gauge with thickness down to .0015. AutoZone sells one for about $6 or $7 which is fine.
5. 4 screws 3/16” x about 5 inches long plus nuts and plain washers and 4 screws 1/8" x about 5 inches plus nuts and plain washers and screws
6. common hand tools like open end/closed end wrenches, screwdrivers, etc

Now, here is a view of the more complex jig:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cMoZfUG8eQiqTx5d6

And here is a view of the simple one:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/J8sRp3obxR9FB4RT6

I’m assuming most of you will take my suggestion and start with the simple one. You can later make it as complex as you wish, and if you need to straighten Carter or other castings, you’ll need to make one sort of large hole in it anyhow. Using a piece of heavy cardstock or manila folder, cut out places for your float arms, your idle dip tube, your main nozzle and protruding vacuum passage nibs so that your air horn can fit flat on this cardstock and then mark the 4 screw holes. Cut or punch these holes out and mark them on your metal plate near one of the 4 inch edges as you can see I’ve done. Try to get them lined up as straight as possible with the carb holes. Drill 3/16” holes corresponding to those and that’s it.

Now, how to use it? Start with your air horn. Make certain the internal vent tube does not stick out above the carb opening. Trim it off level but slightly below the carb body if it does. Set the air horn upside down on the jig as you see below and insert the screws, attach washers and nuts:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4kbvgrfFWtMWenVXA

Before we begin, please remember the corners of this casting are what needs to be pulled downward toward the jig and that is what makes this simple approach work. To start, snug up the 4 nuts. Don’t tighten them, but just snug them up evenly finger tight so that the top of the air horn sits level on the jig surface and doesn't move around at this point. Now with your dial gauge, measure the distance from the top of the airhorn corner to the bottom of the jig (as you see here) at all 4 corners:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1CATwjQ5AgRvgJJ6A

They should be very close if not the same distance. Make a note of the measurements and mark that down. Now move your dial gauge to the center of each of the 2 long sides as you see here and write those measurements down:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gDkpKZFCiXxj7Svr8

Now set your dial gauge to the height of the corners on one side and lock it in place. Using your feeler gauge measure the air gap at the center point on that side and write it down. The center point will be the low point in the arc. Repeat for the other long side. Now focus only on one long side...pick your favorite. Unlock your dial gauge, measure the distance to the jig at the corners and subtract .004” from each (as I said, the distance between each corner and the jig will probably be the same---at least my observation has taught me it is). Lock your dial gauge down reflecting this .004” reduction. Now with a screwdriver and a 3/8 inch wrench tighten each nut on that side a bit, moving back and forth between them. After you have made a half to 3/4 turn tight start checking each corner with your dial gauge while continuing to tighten slowly and evenly. Hopefully you remembered to lock it. Once that dial gauge fits nicely on each side, stop tightening, move to the other long side and repeat this procedure. Remember, we’re only going to correct these castings .004” at a time. Now about the shorter sides: they should bow slightly upward in the center. Don’t worry about this nor try to correct it...as you’ll see it will not be a problem at all. Now heat the casting and jig to 400 degrees and let it cool naturally. Keep repeating this, correcting .004” at a time until you get each corner of each side and the center of that side to be the same distance from the bottom of the jig. Important notes: 1. Don't be surprised if after your casting and jig cool down the nuts on those screws are loose...maybe just finger tight. You’ve relaxed that pot metal and there is no more stress pulling it out of shape now. 2. You’re pulling the edges downward by what you’ve done. This as you may notice will cause the edges to be slightly lower than the bore portion (inner circle). Given the nature of these carburetors and their challenges in sealing, this isn’t a bad thing. It forces the bore to seal more sincerely and this should help with vacuum losses at those 2 important passages.

The float bowl: you can straighten the bowl the same way but you’ll need 1/8” diameter screws, bolts and washers and be very careful not to damage the threads in the bowl. But...you may not need to straighten your bowl as much. It may not be as far off as the airhorn. Check it and see. The procedure is the same as above except you will place the bottom of the bowl on the jig and pull the 4 screw holes downward toward the jig. Remember you're pulling them down to straighten the thing.


Now you need to mate the 2 pieces together and make final corrections. Once you’ve straightened the air horn and the float bowl, you probably will discover when you mate them that although the long edges are straight, the air horn rocks from side to side on the bowl. Go ahead and install the 4 screws holding the air horn to the bowl and tighten one side until there is no clearance for the feeler gauge. Measure the gap on the other side using feeler gauges and write it down. It will look straight but will have a gap like this:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wUGjw4i6Xoyjiswp6

Subtract .004” from the measurement you got with your feeler, select the feeler gauge that matches that reduced amount and tighten that side slowly and evenly until there is no more clearance for the feeler gauge you’re using. Now heat the whole thing back to 400 degrees and let it cool. Repeat until you can’t slide the .0015 feeler gauge in there. When all that is done, you have a carb body which is as good as it is going to get. See what the one I've been working on looks like:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/enDB4Mv93rGUfrNz6

And please save these instructions if this worked for you. Informed sources tell me this fix is good for about 4 or 5 years and then you'll get to do it again.

Last edited by Jon G; Mon Dec 23 2019 06:15 PM.

Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 27,001
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
For folks who don't want to invest in an ultrasonic cleaner, there's a pretty good work-around. Over 30-something years of reloading ammo, I've acquired a few vibrating brass cleaners, the ones that have a big plastic bowl and a vibrating base, and use either ground corncobs or walnut hulls to clean brass cartridges before reloading them. I just adapted a 5-quart stainless steel stock pot to one of the bases and filled it with water, Trisodium Phosphate powder (concrete floor cleaner) and a healthy dose of Dawn dishwashing liquid. I disassembled the carb for my Harley Soft tail and dropped the pieces into the mixture. Clamp the lid on with a bungee cord, plug it in, and come back in a few hours to a clean carburetor! I gave it a good rinse with HOT water and hit all the passages with a high pressure air hose. Good to go!

Jerry


"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and eliminate all doubt!" - Abraham Lincoln
Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. - Ernest Hemingway
Love your enemies and drive 'em nuts!
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,661
J
Jon G Offline OP
'Bolter
Hi again. Sorry but I overlooked 2 tips which may be useful. Here they are:
1. I have found on some of these castings I'm not able to get them to lie nice and flat on both of the long sides. Seems they miss by a few thousands. Here's a way to remedy that...snap a double edged razor blade in half. I just open the little holder and take out a couple I've already used. It goes without saying to be careful here. Do this with two blades. Now mate the air horn to the bowl and tighten just a bit less than finger tight. Line your blades up the way you want (you can see what I did below):

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5VxdabFypuDsM2zQ8

And now tighten the screws and heat the assembly to 400 degrees and let cool naturally. Here is a closer view of those 2 half blades:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9wCqeo6GY6etdHDT9

Also, occasionally the fuel inlet end won't sit flat no matter what you do and there are no screws to help pull it upward. Here is how I fix those:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/z712zMBk3t16JAzh9

You need 2 pieces of 3/8 inch steel for this and a couple of 5 inch C clamps. More about one of the special C clamps I have in a moment. Clamp the bowl between the two flat metal pieces and using wood pieces (and you may need a metal spacer as I did), shim above that part of the bowl. Clamp this down well and bake/cool. It may take 2 times to do this.

And now...My special C clamp. Lots of guys use clamps made in China. They're common and I have some of those, too. In fact, in the image below, you'll see one marked with a green arrow that was made in China. However if you want a really SPECIAL clamp, you have to search a little harder and find one like the clamp marked in the image below with the yellow arrow. I've looked and looked on the globe and I can't seem to find a country named CHNIA, but I know it is out there somewhere.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JcA3u97GvNpgKvgf6


Last edited by Jon G; Tue Dec 24 2019 05:42 PM.

Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,045
G
Insomniac
thumbs_up
Great stuff! Thanks. I just have to remember to look at this thread the next time I have to take apart my carb.

A couple of ideas:
1. use your drill press table as one of the flat plates.
2. after cooking the carb, since the oven is at now at 400, throw in a batch of cookies!


Gord
----
1954 1/2 ton 235 4 speed
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,661
J
Jon G Offline OP
'Bolter
Thanks Gord,
I like the suggestion about the drill press table.
Hope all is well up your way.


Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 11,614
“Grease Monkey” “Former herder of cats”
Nope


Martin
'62 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed (Restomod in progress)
'47 Chevy 3100 5 Window (long term project)
‘65 Chevy Biscayne 4dr 230 I-6 one owner (I’m #2) “Emily”
‘39 Dodge Businessmans Coupe “Clarence”



"I fought the law and the law won" now I are a retired one!
Support those brave men/women who stand the "Thin Blue Line"! Hug a cop!
USAF 1965-1969 Weather Observation Tech (I got paid to look at the clouds)

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,661
J
Jon G Offline OP
'Bolter
It should work now. I think.


Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,611
AD Addict
Thanks Jon! It works now! I guess my chanting must have worked! 👍


Phil
Moderator, The Engine Shop, Interiors and Project Journals

1952 Chevrolet 3100
Project Journals
Stovebolt Gallery Forum

‘59 235 w/hydraulic lifters
“Three on the Tree” & 4:11 torque tube
Updated to: 12v w/alternator, HEI & PCV
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,769
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'Bolter
Jon, As a temporary fix for a warp situation, can I install a second gasket between the two halves? My carb tends to weep at the joint.


Chuck
1950 Chevy 1/2 ton (all original)
1951 Chevy 1/2 ton (future streetrod)
1941 Chevy coupe
1938 Chevy coupe streetrod
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,661
J
Jon G Offline OP
'Bolter
Chuck, you can but I don't like that method. With only 4 screws around the perimeter you have to crank down pretty much to squeeze the area between those screws (if your air horn and possibly float bowl are warped). As you can appreciate, this makes the already existing problem worse. Also you have the question of the internal mast (holding the jet and power valve). It is designed to sit atop 1 gasket thickness. Add two and you must remember to cut one or the mast will sit crooked...and this will cause your power valve to not work correctly. It will be out of line. Jon (CarbKing) and I have talked about this and about a year and a half ago agreed it might be possible to create an air horn to float bowl gasket from silicone or some other plastic compound which would give and expand as needed to fill the warped gaps but neither of us has done anything about it. Also, please take a look at what I found in one of the Rochester B models I took apart. This "rebuilder" had made the whole she-bang worse when one of the two gaskets shrunk and opened up a brand new vacuum port and fuel slosher...

Attached Images
2 gaskets.jpg (20.65 KB, 699 downloads)

Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,569
C
Carburetion specialist
Using two gaskets will simply cause the castings to warp much worse.

Jon.


Good carburetion is fuelish hot air
The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify
If you truly believe "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!
[image]http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Avatar.jpg[/image]
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,769
S
'Bolter
Thanks Jon and Carbking. I’ll not use 2 gaskets to solve my problem. I’ll build Jon’s jig and do it right.

Question...... why do these Rochester carbs warp anyhow??


Chuck
1950 Chevy 1/2 ton (all original)
1951 Chevy 1/2 ton (future streetrod)
1941 Chevy coupe
1938 Chevy coupe streetrod
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,661
J
Jon G Offline OP
'Bolter
The potmetal used is part of the problem. It behaves differently under heat than other metals. The largest problem I think is over-tightening of the screws and the fact the Rochester B and BC models only have 4 screws in the first place. I've been told the Rochester boys knew this was a problem right away. Why they continued with the design from 1950 until 1967 is a real puzzle.

Do you want to borrow the jig I made? Please let me know.


Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,045
G
Insomniac
Originally Posted by Jon G
I've been told the Rochester boys knew this was a problem right away. Why they continued with the design from 1950 until 1967 is a real puzzle.



They only expected vehicles to last 5 years or 50,000 miles. Planned obsolescence. Boy, are we messing with them or what! grin


Gord
----
1954 1/2 ton 235 4 speed
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,661
J
Jon G Offline OP
'Bolter
Some say they would not have made it 5 years before that carburetor started dribbling but yes...they never counted on this, did they? You may recall in October I mentioned I was up in Arkansas and saw many inline 6 engines still powering irrigation pumps. I'm pretty certain one of them was a 235. Could have been a 261 I suppose, but most of the pump engines were 235s because they were less expensive. You can still buy a brand new GM 250 six long block for $2300 (non-hardened valve seats) or $2500 (hardened valve seats). Comes with HEI and water pump. Manifold is for a 1bbl. Great for cotton field, corn, soybean, etc irrigation.


Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,769
S
'Bolter
Jon, thanks for offering to let me borrow your jig. Wish I would have thought to try and meet up with you last week while was in Dallas visiting my mother for Christmas. Could’ve brought the old carb with me and we could have straightened it right then and there. I’ll let you know next time I’m headed your way and I’ll borrow your jig. Thanks again.


Chuck
1950 Chevy 1/2 ton (all original)
1951 Chevy 1/2 ton (future streetrod)
1941 Chevy coupe
1938 Chevy coupe streetrod
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 707
D
'Bolter
Thank you Jon, I was unaware they could be straightened. I have tossed many in the past. Next one I get one I will give it a try. Ed


Currently making 1954 3100 better than new and Genetics
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 10
P
'Bolter
Reviving this thread with a probably stupid question:

On a Rochester carburetor that has been rebuilt at least once (by me), and is now leaking gas anew, what are the most likely sources of the leak(s)?

I'm asking because a neighbor is working on my truck (long story) and says the carb is leaking to the point of smoking with the engine running. We're out of town and I'm trying to decide whether to just buy a new Rochester or Carter carb vs rebuild again or try another maneuver such as the one in this thread. The goal is to drive the truck from our current house to our new house. I hate to throw money/parts at a problem and hate to throw rebuildable parts away.

Any links to other relevant threads are also appreciated, thanks.

Last edited by penderw; Sun Nov 07 2021 02:50 AM.


1950 Chevy 3100 3 Window ("it ran when I parked it")
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,979
P
'Bolter
I suspect the metal to be a zinc-aluminum alloy ("Zamak" is an example).
Yes, it's heavy, but the zinc adds a useful characteristic: it holds fine casting details and threads better than aluminum.
400° F is safe because it melts above 700°; this saves energy in manufacture ($$) compared to aluminum which melts above 1200° F.
It can be soldered.

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,968
B
Curmudgeon
I sent you a message to your web mail address. We live in the same state. I may have something I can lend you.


"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use."
"I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,979
P
'Bolter
what are the most likely sources of the leak(s)

Needle & seat not sealing
Dirt in the float bowl
Float level too high

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,334
T
'Bolter
I have seen at least 3 different thickness of gaskets used on these. What is the proper thickness? And if the carburetor had a thick gasket, and the kit has a thinner one, I suppose that could affect the power valve some, since with a thicker gasket the valve or ball is moved farther away from the power piston, and vice versa.


Kicking self for selling off my Taskforce trucks.
Still looking for an LCF or conventional big bolt in decent shape.


As of 10-26-2022, A 55.2 Taskforce long bed now the work begins
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,661
J
Jon G Offline OP
'Bolter
The float bowl to air horn gasket was 1/32" thick originally. The cheap rebuild kits will very likely include a washer in 1/16" thickness or almost that and I have seen some rebuild kits with gaskets about 1/64" thick (very thin). Some people think it is suitable to use 2 gaskets...but please don't include me in that crowd. In my opinion 1/32" gaskets with straight castings offers the only hope you have of making this poor carburetor work as it was designed. Any vacuum leak will affect the power valve. Using two gaskets will worsen the warping of the air horn. Using two gaskets without buggering one up to account for the extra thickness under the jet mast will change things (not in a good way). 1/16" thick gasket will make warping worse. Jon H (CarbKing) and I discussed the possibility of using a compressible gasket (like modified pvc---the type used for shower pan liners or silicone rubber, etc)...we really did that and in serious terms. The problem there is cost plus time and the need for one that will resist ethanol laced gasoline plus be compressible enough to actually help. We decided it was like putting a band-aid on a leg amputation. Lots of variables plus you STILL have that wonky power circuit to consider...which at this point in time represents a real challenge. Possibly the best answer would be to bore and re-sleeve that piston sleeve in brass. But even that would fail in the presence of ethanol-laced gasoline. In the study of all the Rochester B and BC models I discovered 3 different strengths of power piston springs. This is from looking at 5 carburetors plus some misc parts I had saved from the mid 1960s. Which is correct? Who knows? For me it simply became a question with no answer at all. As I recall Jon H said there may have been 7 or 8 different strengths. A stronger spring will keep your power valve open much longer and a weaker spring will close it sooner. Go and try to find any Rochester data on this...I could find only scant data and I spent months trying.

Good luck with these. The challenges are plentiful.


Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,334
T
'Bolter
I don't think the bore for the piston is too bad, and having 7" HG holding it in the bore is pretty good isn't it? I got the kits from Mikes carburetors. The impressions on the gasket looked like good contact. I'd still like good input on the static fuel level as that is more important than float level and is why some carburetors can have the fuel level adjusted, on the fly.


Kicking self for selling off my Taskforce trucks.
Still looking for an LCF or conventional big bolt in decent shape.


As of 10-26-2022, A 55.2 Taskforce long bed now the work begins
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