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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 546
D
Dogface Offline OP
Shop Shark
Thanks... I'll pass this on to him..


Mark
1949 Chevy 1/2-Ton
Lucielle
Name after my Uncle's Wife..

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If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. ... Will Rogers
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,509
J
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by Dogface
Carl,I'm about convinced to lay down the $$ and go with an open drive line.. Likely I should or will have to eventually...
You might want to Read This First.
Benefit of a torque tube driveline:
"You should mention about closed drive shafts is their absolute impervability to rear spring wind up" (Wheel Hop)

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 546
D
Dogface Offline OP
Shop Shark
Thanks Jorb

I just read that.. It seems, at first and second glance, to lay fault on the rear ends geared in the 4:10/original range.. Mine had been changed to 3:55 a couple years ago


Mark
1949 Chevy 1/2-Ton
Lucielle
Name after my Uncle's Wife..

In the Stovebolt Gallery
More pictures on Photobucket

If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. ... Will Rogers
jorb #1149186 Tue Feb 09 2016 03:05 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 31,613
Bubba - Curmudgeon
Originally Posted by jorb
Torque Tube U-Joint Ball Housing Adjustment Powerglide and manual shift trans. Ball Housing Adjustment are the same.

What it sounds like to me is the Wrench who does the work for you.
Might be not using the correct number of shims.
If the Ball Collar is to close to U-Joint Ball Housing it will tear the cork seal.
That's what the paper shims are for, to adjust how close or far the Ball Collar is from the U-Joint Ball Housing.

Note: The Powerglide and 1/2 ton Hydra-matic transmissions are the only torque tube drivelines the use a ball seat.
The manual shift transmission ball seat is cast into it's tail housing.

jorb,

I do not understand your distinction with regards to the presence of a "ball seat" in the various transmissions.

Any manual shift SM420 4-speed transmission could have a removable/interchangeably cast-iron rear-housing for an enclosed drive-shaft/u-joint "ball seat"; or, any SM420 could have a cast-iron rear-housing for an open drive-shaft/u-joint.

The cast-iron fitting/housing/cover ("tail housing" - rear housing?) on the rear of the SM420 transmission is interchangeable among all SM420 years. Any SM420 could be set-up for open driveshaft or closed driveshaft (with the appropriate rear housing).

This is very convenient.


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com [1954advance-design.com]
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban [stovebolt.com] - part of the family for 49 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic [1954advance-design.com] - part of the family for 15 years
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engines are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler. [chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com]
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,509
J
Shop Shark
Tim,

Let me re-word what I meant to say.
The very end of the tail housing on the Hydra-Matic and Powerglide transmissions is cast/shaped different,
than the very end of the tail housing on the 3 or 4 speed manual shift transmissions.
End of the HM tail housing
End of Manual Shift trans Fig. 22 and 23

In order for the U-Joint Ball Housing to fit properly onto the end of the tail housing of the Hydra-Matic and Powerglide transmissions.
GM stamped out a piece of metal (ball seat) which is placed on the end of it's tail housing. Ball Seat in Place,, Master Parts Catalog Group # 5.565 Seat
First the Rubber O Ring 1, Rubber O Ring 2 is placed into the grove, then the Ball seat.

Now the very end of the HM tail housing has the same shape as the tail housing end of the 3 or 4 speed manual shift transmission.
You could say the ball seat is cast right into the end of the tail housing of the 3 or 4 speed manual shift transmissions.
Therefore no need for a separate stamped out piece, for the 3 or 4 speed manual shift transmissions.

I really don't understand why GM didn't cast the ends of the HM & PG tail housings,
the same as the 3 or 4 speed manual shift tail housings.

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 280
D
'Bolter
Maybe I'm totally off base here (wouldn't be the first time), but I think we're talking about the cork seal that goes at the rear of the ball. The collar that holds the ball in place is adjusted by adding or removing paper (thin cardboard) shims. On the other end is the cork seal that that seals the rear of the ball to the front of the torque tube.

It sounds to me like the mechanic isn't using the two metal retainers that go on either side of the cork. It's a PITA to get it in there, but it seals pretty well. The two washers surround the cork and protect it. Without the washers the cork would be destroyed in no time. Is this the problem?

Never seen a problem with the cork piece that fits inside the collar. I guess you could tear it up if you put it in too tight, but seems questionable. When I redid mine I put a little gear lube on the facing surface of the cork and adjusted it by adding the cardboard gaskets before I reattached the U-joint. Check your shop manual, it tells how to do it. Then you'd know it was installed properly.

Last edited by David Bush; Thu Feb 11 2016 03:11 AM.
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 31,613
Bubba - Curmudgeon
David,

I think the cork seal in this set is what is being discussed. The smaller rear seal that you are referring-to is the rubber seal that is inside the cork seal (in the illustration).

I have never used a cork seal in that location - maybe some sets provide a cork seal.


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com [1954advance-design.com]
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban [stovebolt.com] - part of the family for 49 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic [1954advance-design.com] - part of the family for 15 years
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engines are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler. [chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com]
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 280
D
'Bolter
Yep, last one I did had a cork gasket in the rear. Only thing that I can imagine would tear up the front one is the ball surface being rough or warped in some way. Seems like that would be easy to see, though.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,673
D
Shop Shark

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,509
J
Shop Shark
Originally Posted by David Bush
Reply to David Bush
Originally Posted by Dogface
Tim
Good information there ! Did not know that and will check. As for a replacement made of rubber and NOT cork, I looked at the McMaster-Carr web page under O Rings... Don't really know the size needed at the moment BUT I see that they will custom make an O ring for you for about $9.00. Needs to be I.D of more than 4" for them to make it..

So...what do you guys think ???
The OP = Original Poster "Dogface" of this Thread,
Did say' "Seal" {Needs to be I.D of more than 4",} in a earlier POST or as above.
So, it was the ball collar cork seal He was alluding to.
But, I have seen some Seal Kits that use a cork seal in the torque tube Retainer screw on ring. I prefer rubber.
I have not seen a rubber ball collar seal, only cork.

Originally Posted by David Bush
Yep, last one I did had a cork gasket in the rear. Only thing that I can imagine would tear up the front one is the ball surface being rough or warped in some way. Seems like that would be easy to see, though.
It could be a combination of both.
The ball collar is smooching the cork seal because of incorrect number of shims and a nicked up ball housing.

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