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#1209266 - Sun Mar 19 2017 01:41 AM 235 Assembly Questions - Do I have a beaut. or a bomb?
Rusty Shackleford Offline
Shop Shark
Registered: Thu Sep 06 2007 12:00 PM
Posts: 245
Loc: Vancouver, BC
I have a 1947 1/2 ton with a 216. It has a leaking frost plug/casting plug at transmission end. From what I can find, the engine has to be removed to get at this plug. I figured, while the engine is out, I'd replace it with a 235. The 216 I have runs well but it's tired and oily. I bought a rebuilt 235 from Mr. Lang (a nearby, former, Stovebolter). (He's a real nice guy and very knowledgeable).The engine I got was rebuilt a number of years ago (he wasn't sure exactly when) but the engine had never been run. The casting number is 3764476 which makes it a '58 to '62. There is no number stamped into the deck aft of the distributor so, from what I have gathered from searching, this is a replacement engine. The head,(which is not on the engine) has a casting number of 3836848, so it must be one of the high compressions heads I've read about. It also has been rebuilt.The engine needs intake and exhaust manifolds, a distributor and ignition parts, a fuel pump, carburator, rocker arms and pushrods. Mr. Lang suggested that we take the pan off and plasti-gauge the mains and connecting rod bushings. He also said it would be a good idea to take at least one piston out to check the ring gap and orientation of the rings. Another suggestion he made was to take the engine to a machine shop and let them check the top of the block and the bottom of the head for flatness. This all make sense to me but I have some questions. I'm looking for thoughts, opinions, and two cents about what I should do to get this engine together and running. I've read Deve's rebuild tech article as well as other articles regarding rebuilding these engine. I have a shop manual (but have yet to read the engine chapter.) Questions I have are:
I have an extra intake nd manifold from a 216 but I read that they don't match up on a 235?

I was told that the rocker arm assemblies from a 216 will work on a 235. Is this true? (I would like to keep the 216 as intact as possible in case someone is interested in it)

I have a Rochester B carb that Mr. Lang said ran well on one of his Stovebolts. My 216 has a Carter W-1. Will the distributor from my 216 work on a 235? (but I will get a newer distributor for the reason above)

My 216 has a glass bowl fuel pump which I would like to put on the 235 (if it will work. I have a non-glass bowl fuel pump.

Sorry for such a long post. (There are probably things I've missed.) Any information greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.


Edited by Rusty Shackleford (Sun Mar 19 2017 01:43 AM)
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#1209271 - Sun Mar 19 2017 02:19 AM Re: 235 Assembly Questions - Do I have a beaut. or a bomb? [Re: Rusty Shackleford]
Norcal Dave Offline
Shop Shark
Registered: Thu Oct 13 2016 01:24 PM
Posts: 198
Loc: Norcal
Rusty,

Others here have way more knowledge and experience than I do, but I will say that you should NOT use a rocker assembly from a 216 on a '58 or later 235... the '58 should have the rocker arms with offset oiling holes (to reduce the flow of oil coming out), and an oil tube that is pinched off on the end so that there is no oil return from the rocker shaft. This was partially done to increase oil pressure in the rocker system.

Rocker assemblies should be matched to the block, not the head. Where does your rocker gets its oil from- is there an oil tube running inside your pushrod cover? There is a Tech article regarding the different types of arrangements (hollow cyl head bolt, or separate parallel drilled passage that runs along side the cyl head bolt, etc..)

My '59 engine (261) gets its rocker oil from the lifter galley and therefore requires lifters with the annular ring that allows oil to pass around the lifter. I had a few lifters that had been changed out to the old plain-wall "milk can" style, which I am sure didn't help matters either...

Also, be sure to determine whether or not it is a "full flow" block (all oil from the oil pump passes through the oil filter first), or a bypass filter setup. Then make sure that the oil filtration system (diameter of the oil lines) is appropriate.

I have a full flow block that had the filter plumbed for bypass, and ALL the pressurized oil was passing through a 3/16" orifice.... needless to say, the engine suffered oil starvation at the rockers and probably elsewhere. I was glad that I tore it down prior to putting it on the road.

The distributor gear has to match the cam material- cast iron or forged cam? 216's had forged cams, I believe. The newer engines have cast iron cams. Cast iron cam- use cast iron distributor gear. If I am not correct, someone here all surely correct me. I am not sure whether a distributor gear change is all that you would need to to do use a 216 distributor. Hopefully that's all it will take!

Intake manifold- it is my understanding that the older 216 manifold WILL fit if you use the proper adapter rings (the 216 had smaller diameter intake runners).


Edited by Norcal Dave (Sun Mar 19 2017 02:32 AM)
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Dave

PROJECT: 1950 Chevy 3600



Yard Art/Flower Bed: 1952(?) GMC 1 ton flatbed
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#1209308 - Sun Mar 19 2017 10:39 AM Re: 235 Assembly Questions - Do I have a beaut. or a bomb? [Re: Rusty Shackleford]
52Carl Offline
Shop Shark
Registered: Mon Mar 15 2010 10:27 PM
Posts: 4347
Loc: Virginia
The stock water pump on your 235 will place the cooling fan in the wrong position for your truck. There is an adaptor available that is designed to use a '54 and earlier water pump which places the fan in the correct position.
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#1209312 - Sun Mar 19 2017 11:02 AM Re: 235 Assembly Questions - Do I have a beaut. or a bomb? [Re: Rusty Shackleford]
Hotrod Lincoln Offline
Extreme Gabster
Registered: Mon Feb 23 2004 12:00 PM
Posts: 14071
Loc: Dellrose, TN
Ring gap orientation is a myth- - - - - -rings rotate around the pistons all the time, and yes, the end gaps do align momentarily on occasion. In a matter of seconds the alignment goes away.
Jerry
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"It is better to be feared than loved, if one cannot be both"
Machiavelli

"He ain't even got a noddin' acquaintance with the truth- - -let alone a speakin' one!"

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#1209315 - Sun Mar 19 2017 11:03 AM Re: 235 Assembly Questions - Do I have a beaut. or a bomb? [Re: Rusty Shackleford]
Hookalatch Offline
Shop Shark
Registered: Tue Apr 14 2009 04:30 PM
Posts: 451
Loc: Cottonwood, CA
The 216 distributor will work fine if you change the cam gear with one from a 235 distributor. It's easy to do but of questionable benefit unless you are trying to utilize an otherwise junk 235 distributor or disguise the 235 as a 216.

I did that on my 235 using the 216 valve cover, distributor, re-located water pump (which you should consider doing) with wide belt, vibration damper, generator, glass bowl fuel pump, and welded a bracket on the intake for horn mounting. A knowledgeable person can still quickly tell its a 235 but most people cannot. I was going for an original look as possible.
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1952 Chevy 3100 1/2-Ton
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#1209319 - Sun Mar 19 2017 11:34 AM Re: 235 Assembly Questions - Do I have a beaut. or a bomb? [Re: Rusty Shackleford]
truckernix Offline
Registered: Sun Mar 24 2002 12:00 PM
Posts: 8753
Loc: Bracebridge Ontario Canada
I would suggest to take it apart and look at everything. That is because it is not installed and some significant time has passed since it was assembled.

You can get intake adapter rings for the manifold to use the 216 manifold but I think that would not be your best choice.

I was going to ask Christopher if he still had the Rochester but I see it is gone!
_________________________
1951 GMC 1 Ton Flatbed -- It is finally on the road and what a great time I have driving it!
1951 1 Ton Completed


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#1209348 - Sun Mar 19 2017 02:13 PM Re: 235 Assembly Questions - Do I have a beaut. or a bomb? [Re: Rusty Shackleford]
yar Offline
Shop Shark
Registered: Sat Mar 06 2010 08:21 PM
Posts: 527
Loc: northern california
Rusty,

Here's a brief but informative tutorial on piston ring installation from Hastings, the piston ring manufacturer. It mentions end gap placement among other things.

https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/tech-tips-faqs/ring-installation

Both the GM and Mopar shop manuals that I have also say the same basic things about proper ring installation.
_________________________
Ray
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#1209363 - Sun Mar 19 2017 03:12 PM Re: 235 Assembly Questions - Do I have a beaut. or a bomb? [Re: Rusty Shackleford]
Hotrod Lincoln Offline
Extreme Gabster
Registered: Mon Feb 23 2004 12:00 PM
Posts: 14071
Loc: Dellrose, TN
Back in the 1960's and for a couple of decades before, Perfect Circle piston ring company used to offer a 2-week course for journeyman mechanics and instructors at their training facility called the "Doctor of Motors" program. I was a student there the summer after graduating high school, before beginning engineering school. One of the training tools was a 216 engine on a run stand with quartz windows in the cylinders that allowed students to observe the movement of the pistons, the color of the combustion flame during mixture changes, etc. With a strobe timing light it was possible to slow down the motion to the point that the movement of the piston rings could be observed. It took approximately 10 seconds for a piston ring to make a complete turn around the piston at 2500 RPM- - - -I've watched it happen.

How's life in the garden these days?
Jerry
_________________________
"It is better to be feared than loved, if one cannot be both"
Machiavelli

"He ain't even got a noddin' acquaintance with the truth- - -let alone a speakin' one!"

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#1209570 - Mon Mar 20 2017 07:27 PM Re: 235 Assembly Questions - Do I have a beaut. or a bomb? [Re: Rusty Shackleford]
Rusty Shackleford Offline
Shop Shark
Registered: Thu Sep 06 2007 12:00 PM
Posts: 245
Loc: Vancouver, BC
So, do I use the Patrick's short water pump for the 235, or do I use a pump from a '54 (do they come in short size?) with an adapter plate (as 52Carl suggests)? Do I use the 216 fan or a larger one from a 235?(Going into a '47 AD)The more I read the more convoluted it gets. I plan to get the proper distributor and rockers.Thanks
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#1209578 - Mon Mar 20 2017 08:12 PM Re: 235 Assembly Questions - Do I have a beaut. or a bomb? [Re: Rusty Shackleford]
52Carl Offline
Shop Shark
Registered: Mon Mar 15 2010 10:27 PM
Posts: 4347
Loc: Virginia
If you get the short water pump, your fan will not be in the center of the radiator. Go with the adaptor plate and '54 water pump (its already short).
Easy peasy.
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