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#1133775 - Tue Nov 10 2015 10:07 AM 1951 GMC 1 ton - Improve-Drive-Improve-Drive... & Repeat -
Grigg Offline
Registered: Tue May 10 2005 12:00 PM
Posts: 8960
Loc: Lexington, VA
Hello fellow Stovebolters,

This Journal will detail my work, thoughts, and methods while fixing up and playing with a 1 ton AD truck.

The broad plan is to fix what needs fixing, drive it, make some improvements/modifications, drive it and continue to fix/improve/drive and so on until it's mostly all driving. Not looking to do a frame off restoration or anything that would take the truck off the road for an extended period of time.

Brief background --

In 1999 I started driving a 1952 Chevy 1-ton pickup and came to really like these old trucks and the 1-ton pickups in particular. Learned a lot in the process of racking up many thousands of miles in that old truck.

However, the cab was quite rusty and because of previous "repairs" was not a good candidate for further repair. It was bad enough in 2006 that I took the truck off the road with long term plans of finding a good cab or an altogether better 1-ton pickup.

Fast forward to 2015. I realize that if I'm ever going to find and buy a nice 1-ton I need to actually search for and buy a good one.

Next post will cover my thoughts and methods for finding one.

Grigg
_________________________
1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
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#1133920 - Wed Nov 11 2015 11:27 AM Re: 1951 GMC 1 ton - Improve-Drive-Improve-Drive... & Repeat - [Re: Grigg]
Grigg Offline
Registered: Tue May 10 2005 12:00 PM
Posts: 8960
Loc: Lexington, VA
Ideally I wanted a complete running driving truck with zero or hardly any rust at all and a presentable useable paint job, the more original the better. Having worked for a good spell in a restoration shop and dealt with and replaced plenty of rusty sheet metal I fully understand the money, time, and frustration saved by starting with as solid a vehicle as you can possibly find and then afford (in that order).

What sort of truck?
Well it had to be 1948-1953, I don't care as much for the 54. Had to be a 1 ton, ideally a pickup bed. However a dually or flat bed would work and I'd swap on my old 52 Chevy bed.
GMC was first choice because I like the looks, I've never had one, and they have slightly better engines and a few other things. Chevy would also be a fine option.

Model year preferences? http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/identi...otting%20Guide/
First choice 1949 or 50 because of improved rear cab mounts, in cab fuel tank, and no vent windows. Personal preference on the windows but I think the later style cab mounts are a smart choice for the life of the cab, and in cab fuel tank is nice and convenient place to put one.
Second choice 1948, again no vent windows. later cab mounts can be added reasonably easy, outside fuel tank is not terrible.
Third choice 1952, has vent windows but also the better push button door handles. 1951 hood emblems look better than.. 1953 which does have push button door handles.
Really any of the others would be fine for lack of a 49 or 50.

How and were to search?
Posted a wanted ad here on the Stovebolt forum as well as on the www.oldgmctrucks.com forum.
Searched ebay for both GMC and Chevrolet narrowed by years 48-53.
Searched all of craigslist with www.adhuntr.com with the search terms: GMC 1948 OR 1949 OR 1950 OR 1951 OR 1952 OR 1953 OR 48 OR 49.... and so on. Using "OR" between terms lets it return results for GMC and all the included years at once. This avoids making lots of single searches for every year, and yet a different search for "1948" and "48". Also weeds out duplicate results had it been lots of single searches. Similar broad searches were made for Chevy, Chevrolet, 3800, 250 and so on.

This process after a few weeks and months also gives some idea what the trucks are selling for and what a fair asking price is.
In general I found ebay trucks to be priced pretty high, and quite hard to judge value without seeing the truck in person. My best chance on ebay was for an interesting truck to not sell so I could later inspect it in person, or do so before the auction ended if close by. I did not look at any ebay trucks in person though I was first in line and ready to travel to see one in IL had the high bidder backed out, which he didn't.

The craigslist leads were more fruitful and provided several trucks to look at.
That story and the 5,700 mile roadtrip in the next post.

Grigg
_________________________
1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Top
#1134064 - Thu Nov 12 2015 03:26 PM Re: 1951 GMC 1 ton - Improve-Drive-Improve-Drive... & Repeat - [Re: Grigg]
Grigg Offline
Registered: Tue May 10 2005 12:00 PM
Posts: 8960
Loc: Lexington, VA
The trip.
The Timber Framers Guild had a conference scheduled in Coeur d'Alene, ID that I was attending. I was also in need of a good road trip and decided to drive which opened up the better part of the country to my truck search. I was seriously considering driving a suitable truck home if I found it, having done similar feats before and had fun.
This trip shaped up differently when a friend who recently moved to Denver asked if I could help bring his 48 GMC 1/2 ton project and pieces out to him. With the better portion of the fuel cost covered for the entire trip I didn't mind driving a truck and dragging a trailer instead of riding in comfort in the car sipping fuel.

Here's an overview map of the trip
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Zf3VSH4e_XRdB5fdLkSkptMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
Starting in Virginia and headed straight west to Denver. Returning by the northern rout with a dip down to Asheville, NC.

My "Good" friend Adam signed up for the trip and the TFG conference under the assumption that Idaho was somewhere out there with Illinois and Iowa. Not long before departure and already to late to back out Adam's brother pointed out the error and showed him a map...
This reminds me of a delightful toast about road trips, among other fine things, presented by Adam and my other BM's.
https://flanamullegan.wordpress.com/2013/05/26/youre-on-a-road-trip-with-grigg-a-toast/

Using Craigslist as our travel adviser we picked a rout, collected some notes and phone numbers for trucks to look at, a junkyard to browse, and some new scenery to take in.
We left about 8:00 in the morning Monday and made it to Denver Tuesday shortly after dark. Unloaded the 48 project and turned in for a shower and a good nights sleep.
Below are several pictures from our travels and junkyard browsing on the way to Denver.

Museum in Russell, KS on the way
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/DiwVuw1T5sZNRCcbsZKX5tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
GMC with 4-71 Diesel
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/KQb4U1EQi_BGG25ZRMTyx9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
Several more old GM trucks, none as nice as I was looking for but certianly plenty of good parts, much better than what we have at home.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7Z5XM0LZKOaAZM7Lk3BM_9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7cPn4mCIbQoN85_IVH1LpdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9jncQ...42/IMG_0228.JPG
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/G2PbOGfTtsC6dxzGzvpp89MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FvzcG959S9VN1ofZyVEXNNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aW6d---8ZKxACTO_tH__DNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NRG0tslKmZcXkPFxL-8xIdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-NyNoCR0Ra3YXLmiMWInxdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2z_ALDiW8Szdg3yfzZNH6tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

Next leg of the trip and further truck hunting to follow.

Grigg
_________________________
1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Top
#1134627 - Mon Nov 16 2015 12:37 PM Re: 1951 GMC 1 ton - Improve-Drive-Improve-Drive... & Repeat - [Re: Grigg]
Grigg Offline
Registered: Tue May 10 2005 12:00 PM
Posts: 8960
Loc: Lexington, VA
Leaving Denver Wednesday morning we almost headed North to Wyoming.
In Wyoming was a GMC 1 ton cab and chassis without title but running and driving. The truck was cheap, perhaps too cheap, looked OK in the pictures, and may or may not have been rusty as I couldn't get a lot of detail over the phone. Upon further thought we decided not to go look, it was somewhat inconvenient to get to and I was sure it'd be more project that I really wanted. The cheap price probably couldn't offset the amount of work it would surly need to equal the completeness and quality of the truck I was really searching for.

Instead of going North we turned West on I-70 as Adam hadn't yet seen the big mountains out there and it'd make for a nice drive, we even found some snow. In Rifle Colorado we got off the highway and headed more or less straight for Salt Lake city on some nice smaller roads. For this stretch of the trip from Denver to ID, about 1,200 miles, without a load we had removed the two front tires on the trailer and chained the axle up. This helped the trailer ride better, less wear on tires, and got the fuel mileage up to just over 15 MPG.

Thursday morning we found ourselves in Horseshoe Bend north of Boise, ID at an excellent breakfast spot called the Long Branch Saloon. I'd never been to a saloon for breakfast... before the sun even came up they were open and we were hungry, right place right time.

Driving North through Idaho provides great scenery and in an hour or two it's completely different, and different yet an hour or so after that; all great and interesting. I'd like to make that drive again some day; in my estimation it was the most enjoyable stretch of our entire trip.

Around lunch time we stopped to look at one of the more promising trucks I had found. It was not cheap, apparently had some wiggle room on the price, looked clean and straight in the pictures, and the seller was a good and pleasant guy. An original Chevy 9' pickup with a 12-15 year old restoration, current owner hadn't had it long and needed to sell it.
Here are some pictures of it:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/B9RQK2IjcpjoLRJHR0UKe9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/AZdT_1b4DnxoszmDPytYVdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bWI3PJEwnav3BEh3x4c6gNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1hh-W3hlS-nivpaU9lmHVdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/q9wYGhog5QvX_2d2sDozodMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

It was very apparent before even looking close that this truck was not the one. It was much easier to find problems and troubles with, caused by, or overlooked in the "restoration" than it was to find anything exceptionally nice about it. May have been a nice looking useful truck back a few years ago but was quickly becoming a candidate for a full and proper restoration to prevent further deterioration. More project than I needed even before talking about the price; skipped that discussion altogether and bid our farewells.


Next post about the next truck,

Grigg
_________________________
1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Top
#1134631 - Mon Nov 16 2015 01:08 PM Re: 1951 GMC 1 ton - Improve-Drive-Improve-Drive... & Repeat - [Re: Grigg]
2-Ton Offline
Registered: Fri Aug 24 2001 12:00 PM
Posts: 2160
Loc: Mokane ,Mo.
Grigg
Thanks for the play by play adventure update!
It shows how you really did your research and had standards to meet, for what you wanted.

Don
_________________________
Of all the things I've lost in my life, I miss my mind the most!

1967 GMC 9500 Fire Ladder Truck
"The Flag Pole"
In the Stovebolt Gallery
More pix on Photobucket
'46 2-Ton grain truck
'48 3/4-ton grain truck
'48 1-1/2-ton flatbed
'50 2-ton flatbed
'54 Pontiac Straight Eight
'54 Plymouth Belvedere
'76 TR-6
'82 Jeep CJ-8 Scrambler
'70 American LaFrance pumper fire truck.

Pix on Photobucket
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#1134632 - Mon Nov 16 2015 01:09 PM Re: 1951 GMC 1 ton - Improve-Drive-Improve-Drive... & Repeat - [Re: Grigg]
Grigg Offline
Registered: Tue May 10 2005 12:00 PM
Posts: 8960
Loc: Lexington, VA
Finally arriving in Coeur d'Alene Thursday mid afternoon there was one more truck to look at before the conference started. This one I spotted on craigslist 9 months prior and agreed to take a look if it was still available come October when I'd be in the area.

It hadn't sold in the meantime.
The owner was not the original however the truck had been in his family from new. A 1951 GMC dual wheel 1 ton.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/FDy7H2e7C7zujdeMKCLeYtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

Long story short it is a very clean truck, only major things against it was one spot of rust on the passengers floor and the bed I don't care a lot for. It has new glass in all except the rear, paint is presentable, frame looks good, brakes worked and had a few new flex lines and other recent work. Engine ran and sounded good, drove well, shifted smooth.
Not all perfect but these things I expect and or can deal with easily. Needs wiring harness soon, no shorts at present. Tires are old and checked but holding air, likely will last a while yet. Bed has rotten wood and some rust under a plywood floor. Original (I think) seat cover has some duct tape repairs. Wipers don't work. Carb requires part choke to run smooth.

We made a deal, loaded up the truck and strapped it down. For safe keeping over the weekend I backed truck, trailer, and pickup truck into the shop where the seller works. Walked the two blocks back to the conference center and supper quite pleased to have found a very decent 1 ton GMC.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5cPP7CYMbYdnx3iIl9KRLNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink


Next the balance of the trip then preliminary work on the truck,

Grigg

_________________________
1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Top
#1134662 - Mon Nov 16 2015 04:38 PM Re: 1951 GMC 1 ton - Improve-Drive-Improve-Drive... & Repeat - [Re: Grigg]
Grigg Offline
Registered: Tue May 10 2005 12:00 PM
Posts: 8960
Loc: Lexington, VA
Sunday evening about 6:30 or so east coast time we departed Coeur d'Alene, ID.
First stop was half hour later to pickup a small ice cream dipping cabinet/freezer. Also a craigslist find a few months ago that happened to still be there.

We took a somewhat Northern rout through Montana which would have been nice to see if it wasn't dark out...
Truck and trailer pulled well and soon enough we were in Minnesota where we stopped in Frazee Monday evening to pickup a single cylinder Detroit Diesel for a friend.

Here's a pic with the entire load.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/5e191nzhG_1-kEqLzh-dP9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

A little about the towing truck.
My Father's 05 F250 he bought new with a 5.4L gas engine. Couple years ago we had a 1999 24V Cummins and an 07 model G56 manual transmission swapped into it. It performed quite well on the whole trip. Average fuel mileage while towing was about 13.5 and with empty trailer just over 15 MPG. We moved along at 65-75 depending on the road and conditions.
The 100 gallon transfer tank/tool box was borrowed from a neighbor for the trip. In addition to dry storage for our luggage the 100 gallons of fuel was real handy for buying cheap fuel where we could and using it while fuel was expensive at the pump. Also saved time and aggravation because we could pull off at a rest area and top off off the truck all in just a few minutes, no worries about finding a fuel station and navigating to it with trailer in tow in the wee hours of the morning. Increased our range by 4X.
The crew cab truck we had setup with a shelf in front of the back seat making room for a mattress so we could alternate driving and sleeping. On a couple occasions we pulled in a rest area and the other one of us would sleep on the front seat for a spell.
Some pictures of the truck conversion here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/11808200207...feat=directlink

From Minnesota we headed for Knoxville, TN where Adam's Sister and family live. There we found a splendid supper, warm showers, and comfy beds waiting. I don't care to drive I-75 from Lexington to Knoxville again if I can avoid it. No fun with the traffic and a load.

Wednesday morning we headed out for Asheville, NC to fetch my VW car from the mechanic. This while out of our way still saved 300 miles and better part of a day had I tried to fetch otherwise. Pointed directly home at last Adam drove the VW while I followed along with the truck. Worked out nicely that he could zip along and even fetched takeout lunch while slower but steady I caught up with him at a rest area for the meal.

Well, not quite directly home from Asheville because I realized we'd be close to one of my favorite newer truck junk yards in Roanoke, VA during business hours. (Otherwise I can't get there without taking vacation time from work.) Stopped for a quick browse and to pull an air compressor for a friends truck project.

Finally we made it home pretty much 3 days from leaving Idaho and 2,700 miles later. Total trip an indicated 5,700 miles 9.5 days door to door with 3 days of conference in the middle.

Tomorrow I'll try to get y'all up to speed on the 51 GMC; brake work, carb tinkering, and a few other things,

Grigg
_________________________
1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Top
#1134728 - Tue Nov 17 2015 05:50 AM Re: 1951 GMC 1 ton - Improve-Drive-Improve-Drive... & Repeat - [Re: Grigg]
Paul_WNC Offline
Shop Shark
Registered: Sun Nov 27 2011 10:09 AM
Posts: 1336
Loc: North Carolina
Grigg,

I think your new project has a WW2 military G506 bed, most likely made by Budd. There were a few changes in the bed depending on wartime resource availability so making a relatively good ID of vintage is not too difficult. If you take some pictures I can help you out.

Cool saga, I bet it was difficult to pay attention at your conference.

Paul
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#1134778 - Tue Nov 17 2015 01:28 PM Re: 1951 GMC 1 ton - Improve-Drive-Improve-Drive... & Repeat - [Re: Grigg]
Grigg Offline
Registered: Tue May 10 2005 12:00 PM
Posts: 8960
Loc: Lexington, VA
Thanks for the info on the bed, I was guessing it was from a military trailer having seen similar ones.
From a G506 truck makes more sense. What little I read so far indicates the bed is from the 40's, need to scrape the paint off the tag and see what it reveals. (edit, did that, made in 1945) I'll get more pictures in time too.
Might be the original bed to the truck though it was previously used/surplus at the time.


The truck fits well in the garage and meets approval. PICTURE

On my lunch break the day after getting it home I made the rounds to the Insurance agent, DMV, and county office for all the necessary paperwork. After getting home from work I took it for a couple mile drive up the road to a neighbor/friends house. It was pretty weak on the hills but drove OK. While we were checking it out in his driveway I noticed some oil on the frame under the bed... looking closer it was brake fluid from a rusted through brake line to the rear axle. I drove carefully home and the brakes continued to work luckily enough.

Friday I was back at work until after lunch I found out a couple local stovebolters were headed to the junkyard. Same yard I had spoken for a set of 8 lug dual 19.5" wheels about a year prior and hadn't made the time to go fetch yet. Now with a truck that could actually use the wheels for it was the perfect time to get them before I missed out on the deal. Sorry I forgot the pictures but all 6 with 8R19.5 tires fit in the back of my VW station wagon. Made for a nice afternoon trip and good to see some Stovebolters.

Saturday morning a local Stovebolter stopped by to lend a hand with the brake line replacement. He also picked up a few pointers on making brake lines, the part of his own project next to tackle.
Saturday midday two more Stovebolters stopped by to check out the truck and lend a hand with brake bleeding and carburetor fiddling.

The apparent carburetor troubles I first suspected may be just a vacuum leak. To test I sprayed ether/starting fluid on all the gaskets and such while running. Had the engine rpm picked up it would indicate a leak, we couldn't find one.
Next some collective brain storming lead to checking the float level and the accelerator pump. The float level was off some.

It has a Zenith model 228 carburetor. Here are some useful links for that.
http://www.carbkitsource.com/carbs/tech/Zenith/Zenith%20Model%2028%20228.html
http://c779252.r52.cf2.rackcdn.com/zenith_28_identification.pdf
http://www.zenithfuelsystems.com/downdraft_228.htm
http://www.autotestsys.com/Zenith.htm

We found the accelerator pump has 3 positions/stroke lengths for different tuning and only one clip is to be used in one of those positions. The carb was assembled with two clips capturing the accelerator linkage on the pump rod, this we decided and later confirmed was incorrect.
Originally these carbs used a steel accelerator pump plunger with no rubber cup and therefore very little friction. The throttle/accelerator pump linkage pushes on a spring when accelerating and that spring more gradually pushes the plunger down, the connection is not rigid. Problem was the rubber pump cup (aftermarket rebuild kit) was so sticky in the bore the spring could not overcome it, the pump would not function at all. Which lead to someone's idea to put an extra clip on the pump rod linking it solidly, this causes bent linkage if you move the throttle too quickly.

After evaluating the one whole, two half carburetors, and a box of little parts we decided I'd be better off looking for a carb in better shape.

Not to let a poorly running engine keep us from a trip to the local brewery we 3 packed into the cab and took it out for the second voyage. The beverages were good and the company better. Some little backfires and stumbling on the hills made for an interesting but successful ride back home.


Next some necessary yet boring brake work,

Grigg
_________________________
1951 GMC 250 in the Project Journals
1948 Chevrolet 6400 - Detroit Diesel 4-53T - Roadranger 10 speed overdrive - 4 wheel disc brakes
1952 Chevrolet 3800 pickup
---All pictures---
"First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-
Top
#1135017 - Wed Nov 18 2015 10:30 PM Re: 1951 GMC 1 ton - Improve-Drive-Improve-Drive... & Repeat - [Re: Grigg]
MPandC Offline
Shop Shark
Registered: Thu Jul 28 2011 10:09 PM
Posts: 559
Loc: Leonardtown, MD
Grigg, I would have had a hard time leaving this GMC sitting there...


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NRG0tslKmZcXkPFxL-8xIdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink


Looks to be somewhat solid too..
_________________________
Robert

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